Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What are your company's anti-values?

willsewell.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 274 posts

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#171

Post by austincheney »

lbriner wrote: post #4

The trade-off question is interesting. I think for us, an implied anti-value would be "Focus on the core product and say no to some customers " As OP said, no-one would deny that focusing on the core product is bad but at what cost? We have failed in the past by taking on custom work for the cash, and it helped us bootstrap. But to scale, the custom work needs to go away and we need to give the maximum value to the b…

I haven't seen that anywhere I have worked. Normally this is a form of double speak. Developers claim to "focus on the product" but typically the only focus is upon the developers' core strengths first and only then fit the product into the pieces left over.

You can tell difference between focus on the product and focus on yourself with metrics and how readily people are eager to ignore numbers using excuses from poorly formed reasoning reflective of a more honest intent.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#172

Post by p1esk »

hutzlibu wrote: post #165
p1esk wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument would be, as long as the pay is right, toxic culture is allright? No. Why would you think so?

Because the context was toxic culture?

No, the context was Netflix seeking top performance (results) from its employees. Whether this leads to toxic culture is a different question and up for a debate.

My point is a company that offers top compensation can and should demand top performance.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#173

Post by xhevahir »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #10

The most famous anti-value was "Don't be evil" and look where that ended up. "Don't be a dick" has good practical mileage. The Kantian ideal of the Kingdom of Ends is pretty good one if you formulate it as "Don't use people", but that's too high a standard for almost any business today (especially the ones whose entire model is "using people"). One of my personal maxims is "Lead people not into temptation". In other…

"Don't be evil" is a dreadful credo. Allows a ridiculous amount of wiggle room. The fact that these very smart people formulated their beliefs in such a self-consciously childish manner should have been taken as a warning.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#174

Post by marcosdumay »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #120
marcosdumay wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean that you should not hide of the difference between values and behavior? Because there's nothing on that comment that actually supports the difference. And if you are being honest, descriptive values should describe your behavior very closely.

The thing you're struggling with is the parent's humility. Value: be great at everything all the time Parent: I try very hard but often fail You: then you must be dishonest about your values Humility is a virtue not a vice.

> then you must be dishonest about your values

Hum, no, but then he is talking about the "aspirational values" that the GP pointed.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#175

Post by blululu »

Edman274 wrote: post #141
xiaq wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "favor not being evil over making more money" is exactly how the "don't be evil" motto is commonly interpreted.

As a shareholder, I think that not making as much money as possible is the real evil here. I always interpreted "don't be evil" as "don't waste money building an aquarium for sharks with lasers on their heads". I never in my darkest nightmares thought it meant "shut down profitable centers of corporate growth just because some bleeding hearts say that it's bad to pollute developing countries with planned obsolescent…

Of all the massive cash fires at Google (Cloud) you’re concerned about the shark photonics lab? That one might actually pay off some day with meaningful improvements in marine fiber optic cables. Given how important deep sea optics are for Google’s core business it is a negligible cost with a huge upside.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#176

Post by BeetleB »

krageon wrote: post #14
sakarisson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every C-level employee is an asshole and probably a sociopath That's a big generalization without any argument to back it up.

What is there to give arguments for? Either you've worked in a few companies and you have friends that have also done so (in which case it'd seem obvious), or you're part of a class that doesn't work (or you are a C-level employee yourself). In the latter cases, nothing I say will convince you. In the former case, we have enough shared environmental background that you understand what I'm saying already. Given those…

Your comment can be summed up as:

"Either you share my twisted view of the world or you don't. I choose not to believe that others can objectively evaluate evidence, and there's the risk that they may not come to the same conclusion that I did."

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#177

Post by hutzlibu »

p1esk wrote: post #172
hutzlibu wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the context was toxic culture?

No, the context was Netflix seeking top performance (results) from its employees. Whether this leads to toxic culture is a different question and up for a debate. My point is a company that offers top compensation can and should demand top performance.

"Whether this leads to toxic culture is a different question and up for a debate"

And here I was thinking this whole thread was about that question ...

"My point is a company that offers top compensation can and should demand top performance. "

Anyway, sure they can. But no company can expect from me, to put the company over my self. A good company has those goals aligned. I get money - and they get performance. Win win. But I will not work to death for them, as then all my money would be worthless.

That is - no for-profit company can expect this from me. A non-profit on the other hand, that has truly utilitarian goals, that really benefit humanity - I might consider putting myself aside. But why should anyone sacrifice himself, so a company makes more money? That doesn't make sense to me. But of course it makes sense, that companies want their employes give everything to them.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#178

Post by cloverich »

karatinversion wrote: post #53

A company always consists of individuals that have to make trade-offs, so to the extent it has a cohesive culture at all, it will have values that are expressed in those trade-offs. But values (or anti-values) that a company publicly espouses do not need to coincide with its actual values: a value statement of being inclusive does not prevent a culture of bullying, and a value statement of putting the customer first…

This is true and i am inclined to try and ask questions about them. My last company had a “no jerks” policy and i was floored when they actually followed through in firing a (talented) PM who was kind of a jerk. One warning, then he was gone as fast as he came.

I’m not sure i could ask smart and direct enough questions to really assess this but hope i can at least sniff out the bs.

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#179

Post by sdiupIGPWEfh »

p1esk wrote: post #170
sdiupIGPWEfh wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've seen happen at other companies that state they value impact over effort, openly discouraging overtime, is that eventually certain individuals will attain higher impact by not recording their overtime, who then pressure others to do the same. No, no one is directly rewarded for overtime, but effectively, yes, undocumented overtime becomes the expectation from your peers. That is toxic.

How do you know if there’s overtime involved? I’ve worked with people who could accomplish as much in two hours as I did in two days. Would it be “toxic” to work in such an environment?

If your colleagues are leveraging substantial undocumented overtime, you're going to find out eventually. If you know someone is in the office 40 hours a week and they submit massive pull requests first thing in the morning, even Monday mornings, for problems you know they hadn't solved or started the night or week before, you should suspect something's up. Sooner or later, if someone's breaking their neck, they will resent team members who aren't putting in the same effort, and they'll slip and admit to the amount of time they're putting in, directly or indirectly.

Granted, it's easier to hide this now when everyone's working from home.

> I’ve worked with people who could accomplish as much in two hours as I did in two days. Would it be “toxic” to work in such an environment?

No, why would that be toxic?

Re: What are your company's anti-values?

#180

Post by arrow7000 »

logifail wrote: post #55
dusted wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm finding that Netflix slide incredibly toxic, I'd never want to work for Netflix after reading that, no matter how skilled I was (they wouldn't want me anyway so nobody lost anything).

> I'm finding that Netflix slide incredibly toxic I don't find anything in that deck even remotely toxic. I find it almost jaw-droppingly honest !

Honestly and toxicity are orthogonal. They're not opposite sides of the same spectrum. Seems to me that they are both honest and toxic.
Post reply on HN