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Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

nytimes.com

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Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#171

Post by QuarterReptile »

jpm_sd wrote: post #83

I live in a dense, walkable Boston suburb that is served by the MBTA commuter rail. But it's also full of "Masshole" drivers and adjacent to a couple of high-traffic major highways. I've observed a sharp increase in impatience and road rage, both on our 25 mph city streets, and on and off Rtes 1 and 93, in the last 2 years. Not to mention ever-more inattentive driving with eyes on phones. It's pretty alarming. I don'…

I've never seen Trump lumped into the scapegoating of recent traffic deaths onto grumpy motorists, but certainly the pandemic-despair traffic death meme is widespread. Strong Towns has a different explanation that is less dependent on the entire driving public sharing a mindset with a few journalists at big papers: much of the congestion, which acted as the only reasonable limit to speed on our very dangerous roads, has gone missing. Jeff Speck (Walkable City) also recently talked about how he got suckered into the same just-so story until he heard Marohn's explanation.

In podcast form: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/driving-went-down-fataliti... In article form: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/1/10/driving-went-d...

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#172

Post by analog31 »

vetinari wrote: post #145
analog31 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could have to do with how they are paid for. When the sidewalks were repaired on my street, each resident received a bill, proportional to how many of the segments were in front of their house. When the road was rebuilt, the money came from Somewhere Else. Yeah, Somewhere Else is ultimately the same place, but homeowners don't see it as personally flowing out of their own pockets.

Are you part of some private community, that is able to make purchase orders on behalf of its members? Otherwise, what you describe is not normal. The bill would be paid by whoever issued the PO. If it wasn't me, I'm not paying. If it was not on my property, then not my problem, and if it was, you have also trespassing on top. So the only alternative that occurs to me that you are a part of some community, with commo…

The bill is called a "special assessment." It does permit you to do the work yourself if you want, but that's much more expensive typically. Right to work on the property is called an "easement."

These measures are common in urban areas in the US.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#173

Post by Steltek »

jpm_sd wrote: post #83

I live in a dense, walkable Boston suburb that is served by the MBTA commuter rail. But it's also full of "Masshole" drivers and adjacent to a couple of high-traffic major highways. I've observed a sharp increase in impatience and road rage, both on our 25 mph city streets, and on and off Rtes 1 and 93, in the last 2 years. Not to mention ever-more inattentive driving with eyes on phones. It's pretty alarming. I don'…

Boston drivers were cconditioned for perpetual bumper-to-bumper traffic. With traffic levels down, there was no bumper in front of them to slow them down so they just floor it until they find one.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#174

Post by sumtechguy »

joefife wrote: post #98
Aeolun wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would be nice if we had more sidewalks, but they are financially unsustainable I call bullshit. The smallest 50 people village in the Netherlands has sidewalks. It’s not that it’s unsustainable, it’s that nobody wants to pay for it. Or that americans build too friggin big.

Indeed. It's a very strange argument - sidewalks require significantly less to sustain. For a start, the build quality can be a lot lower - a sidewalk doesn't need to support lorries with 13t loads. As for maintenance, the damage to them is far less, and repairing a sidewalk would usually be a small diversion rather than the drama of a road closure. I'm not quite sure why anyone would think sidewalks are an unthinkab…

It depends on the city/state/county you are in and the local building codes. The city I grew up in the code was to have a sidewalk in pretty much all new construction building conditions except in some very narrow ones. It was very nice. Biking/walking was easy and 'built in'. The sidewalk at my parents house I think is the original one the builder put in, in the 1940s. With a small segment replaced because tree damage. If you DIY the cost is fairly low, just a lot of work. But if you hire a contractor to do it, the cost can spiral pretty quickly. If the cost is folded into the price of the house you would not notice it much. But to add on after the fact it can be a bit of sticker shock.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#175

Post by ahoho »

ejb999 wrote: post #129
stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

>>The high rate of pedestrian deaths is a result of policy regarding road design, pedestrian infrastructure and lenient criminal charges. The driving culture is also to blame. Driving is a god given right. Cars equal freedom, and the bigger the better. Pedestrians are a nuisance and cyclists are the enemy. Yea, but almost none of those things have changed in the last two year - so does nothing to explain the spike in…

You’re parroting unfounded conservative talking points. We never defunded the police. Any cuts were minor and temporary

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/cities-vowed-2020-cut-po...

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#176

Post by bitexploder »

stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

I drove a 1990 Mustang V8 from ‘00-06 or so. It was 0-60 in about 6-flat. So that is a good reference point. Our 4Runner also makes 300hp and is actually sluggish, even by older standards. So not all cars are insane and it is really nice to have efficient 300hp engines for a lot of reasons. My truck makes 500hp and 1000 ft/lbs torque and gets like 18-19 mpg in its stock form. Extremely useful for towing and amazing efficiency given what it does.

So, some cars are too fast, but that efficiency and power also has a lot of practical purpose in many vehicles. Anyhow, I agree with the thrust your statement, but most people are responsible enough to not drive a powerful car recklessly.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#177

Post by ericmay »

syshum wrote: post #168
ericmay wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rules for these things vary by state. Personally I view your take on cleaning sidewalks off of snow (again which vary by state) as really concerning and antisocial. The other issue here is that you still pay for the roads, maintenance, police patrols, rest stops, expansion, environmental degradation, snow removal, insurance for cars, gas infrastructure, and all of those things related to roads but since you don’t get…

>>and antisocial. OK And? I fully admit I am anti-social. >>The other issue here is that you still pay for the roads, maintenance, police patrols, rest stops, expansion, environmental degradation, snow removal, insurance for cars, gas infrastructure, and all of those things related to roads but since you don’t get a specific bill in the mail with the line item for roads that you don’t think you’re paying for them or…

> Honestly if city employed people to remove the snow from the sidewalks and sent me a bill like they do trash collection I would have less of a problem with them. That is not what they do though...

I'm not kidding - the other day some kids walked by and asked if they could shovel my sidewalk and driveway before I got the chance to do it myself and I just paid them to do it. How cool is that? Why do you need the city to solve your problem here? If money isn't the issue... I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

> Solve that problem by getting teens off the road.

How can you do that when they have to drive everywhere? Do you not see how circular this is? Once they grow up they become adults, and then they die on the road too as yet another leading cause of death.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#178

Post by datavirtue »

aww_dang wrote: post #36
gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

I'm all for cycling, but as a former bike messenger this take feels a bit extreme. The obesity crisis is real and people should get out and be more active. No matter how many concessions are made, most people are just unable to get over the lack of inertia and start cycling. Even if we allow for a hypothetical safety utopia, comments here will cite sweating as a deal breaker. I understand and empathize with beginners…

I got acclimated and the incidents involving aggressive drivers piled up to the point where I made the decision to stay off the roads. During the summer we have a steady stream of experienced dead cyclists here. Usually a hit and run.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#179

Post by cool_dude85 »

giantg2 wrote: post #119
masklinn wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Separately, it would be nice if we had more sidewalks, but they are financially unsustainable in low density areas. That is complete nonsense. Sidewalks are not a significant additional expense to the road it’s on, even at a much lower level of build quality / complexity require very little maintenance as the only damage is environmental (pedestrians and cyclists do 6 or 7 orders of magnitude less damage to the sur…

"Sidewalks are not a significant additional expense" Depends on your definition of significant and sidewalk. It does add cost, so it's not insignificant (you can observe it with confidence). For states that are already struggling with infrastructure costs, it would not be feasible (look at PA and it's bridges). Most states or municipalities actually have codes that the sidewalk has to follow. So it it's not legally p…

>Depends on your definition of significant and sidewalk. It does add cost, so it's not insignificant (you can observe it with confidence).

What a bad-faith definition you're using here. By this definition if you reimbursed a road worker for a penny they dropped during their shift building the road it'd be a significant expense.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#180

Post by bitexploder »

ruddct wrote: post #163
stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

To give just a few examples of the legal side of this: Here in NY, killing someone with a vehicle is a misdemeanor (unless you're drunk/high). People avoid this charge by claiming a medical incident while driving, and are often able to drive off from the scene of the crime. Hit-and-runs result in arrest less than 1% of the time. Speed cameras are restricted in number, location (only by schools) and hours of operation…

Please no speed cameras though. I would like to not escalate surveillance in society.
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