Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 185 posts

Re: UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

#171

Post by chriswarbo »

okeuro49 wrote: post #149
chriswarbo wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't mean its not a problem. What a silly strawman; I never said it wasn't a problem, and in fact I said the opposite.

> What a silly strawman No, it was a criticism of whataboutism of the first part of your comment, which didn't address the problem, but rather compared its magnitude to a different problem. I think it was your comment, actually, which was the straw man of the person you were responding to. The original commenter was talking specifically about pornography, and your comment straw-manned this as somehow a wish to "wind…

> compared its magnitude to a different problem.

Nagging someone for their onlyfans details is a form of "cat-calling, profanities and other verbal abuse". It's not "a different problem", just because it involves an Internet word.

> The original commenter was talking specifically about pornography

Yes.

> your comment straw-manned this as somehow a wish to "wind back the clock"

No, that was a specific reference to the original commenter's claim that "art and entertainment these days are void of any real complex romantic plots or subplots. It's all quarantined off into the world of hardcore porn.".

That claim is so laughably ignorant that no straw-man is needed:

- It ignores Sturgeon's law (that most of everything is crap; regardless of when it was made)

- It's ignoring survivorship bias (that great works will be long treasured and easily recalled; whilst the crap will get forgotten)

- It's ignoring availability bias (that examples from "these days" will be drawn from what's close-to-hand; not necessarily the best of what's out there right now)

- It's ignoring that porn has permeated media since pre-history; that some of the earliest photos and film are pornographic; etc.

- It's claiming that this is somehow a new problem, despite kids having access to pornography long before smartphones were invented.

and so on.

Re: UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

#172

Post by nly »

boffinism wrote: post #17

This feels like it could be resolved by technology. I am happy to identify myself to government entity A to prove my age, but I don't want A to know what sites I visit. I want to visit site B, but I don't want to identify myself. Is there no API that will allow B to verify my age via A, without A finding out what site B is, and without B finding out anything more than my age bracket?

How quickly people forget...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Persona

Re: UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

#173

Post by accountofme »

toyg wrote: post #60
accountofme wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you mean Lead Zeppelin...

uhm, no...? https://wordhistories.net/2021/09/20/lead-balloon/ It's a common idiom in political discourse. Or was this a bad joke?

The band Led Zeppelin is called that because keith moon(iirc) from the who said forming the supergroup "would work as well as a lead Zeppelin".

It was a historical joke :)

Re: UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

#174

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

amanagnihotri wrote: post #112
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think oauth 2 would give the required privacy protection. How would the flow go? Click on an age verification link on a site. It redirects to the gov site, where you authenticate and it returns a signed claim. Now the government knows what sites you are visiting. Not something I suspect most people will want when accessing porn sites...

I refreshed my understanding of OAuth 2.0 and sure, its typical flows which are meant for convenience do not offer the level of privacy protection as you mention. But if we replace that convenience with some effort from the user, we can get the privacy protection as well. The flow can be as follows: The user authenticates itself via government's site and is presented with a page which lets them create government-sign…

Well, that technically works, but it's unusable. And you would have to do that for every site that requires age verification.

It's not really oauth 2 either, even though it re-uses bits of it. There is no "flow"!

Re: UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

#175

Post by habosa »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #74
habosa wrote: post #23

People don’t realize how invasive the UK govt is when it comes to internet monitoring. Today if you try to access adult content on a UK mobile device you get blocked by age verification. You have to call your mobile provider and prove your age (it’s a once-per-contract thing). One of the ways you can prove your age is with a credit card. But I imagine it’s a large deterrent because not many people want to call Vodafo…

This is not true – AFAIK literally every major mobile provide offers this as a simple on-off toggle in their app or on their account management site.

In my case I had to call. Maybe because I am not on a contract.

Re: UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

#176

Post by loudtieblahblah »

chriswarbo wrote: post #171
okeuro49 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What a silly strawman No, it was a criticism of whataboutism of the first part of your comment, which didn't address the problem, but rather compared its magnitude to a different problem. I think it was your comment, actually, which was the straw man of the person you were responding to. The original commenter was talking specifically about pornography, and your comment straw-manned this as somehow a wish to "wind…

> compared its magnitude to a different problem. Nagging someone for their onlyfans details is a form of "cat-calling, profanities and other verbal abuse". It's not "a different problem", just because it involves an Internet word. > The original commenter was talking specifically about pornography Yes. > your comment straw-manned this as somehow a wish to "wind back the clock" No, that was a specific reference to the…

>Nagging someone for their onlyfans details is a form of "cat-calling, profanities and other

I like how what you got out of this was that someone was harassing someone... Which, true

Rather than a underage teenager had an onlyfans. you seem to be OK with this and more worried she was being asked for it.

Wtf is a teenager doing with a f* OF page ?

Re: UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

#177

Post by efdee »

hogepiyo wrote: post #64
efdee wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not.

Google's support page says otherwise https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/10070779?hl=en-GB#...

A valid ID or credit card. So you don't need a credit card.

Re: UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

#178

Post by efdee »

iqonq wrote: post #85
hyperman1 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This says ...or a valid id.... ,which is a lot more common than a credit card. Credit cards in the EU are not very prominent as a payment method, mostly for paying USA companies.

When I said credit card I thought it was obvious I meant that debit cards are also acceptable. Turns out it wasn't!

Even if you include debit cards, you're still wrong.

You don't need anything. At all. According to Google, in case they suspect you might be lying about your age, they _might_ require age verification. This can be done with a credit card or an ID card.

So no, you don't need a credit card to watch age-restricted videos. You don't need a debit card either. You probably don't even need an ID card or anything at all.

Re: UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

#179

Post by chriswarbo »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #176
chriswarbo wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compared its magnitude to a different problem. Nagging someone for their onlyfans details is a form of "cat-calling, profanities and other verbal abuse". It's not "a different problem", just because it involves an Internet word. > The original commenter was talking specifically about pornography Yes. > your comment straw-manned this as somehow a wish to "wind back the clock" No, that was a specific reference to the…

>Nagging someone for their onlyfans details is a form of "cat-calling, profanities and other I like how what you got out of this was that someone was harassing someone... Which, true Rather than a underage teenager had an onlyfans. you seem to be OK with this and more worried she was being asked for it. Wtf is a teenager doing with a f* OF page ?

> you seem to be OK with this and more worried she was being asked for it

Again with the silly strawmen...

Re: UK.gov to make adults give credit card details for access to Facebook or TikTok

#180

Post by kelseyfrog »

notch656a wrote: post #168
mftrhu wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Revealed"? I'm sorry? The only person who can display "genuine curiosity" over the nth dimwit making the same set of already thoroughly debunked claims for the hundredth time - claims that get repeated, only infinitesimally changed, over timeframes measured in years to decades - is someone who suffers from heavy memory problems. Engaging with them is frankly pointless: even if they are willing and able to learn - wh…

You're relying on the (inaccurate) fact that this tactic is designed specifically in mind to shut down trans-haters/trans-disinformation (I lack the right word here, but you know what I mean, people who are seen as spreading damaging and likely untrue information about LGBTQ). Ignoring the debate about whether our methodologies should be applied uniformly, even to trans disparagers or even people like Nazis, this tur…

Just wanted this to die down because this is like meta-meta discourse at this point.

I love this tactic because it gets people to earnestly say what they believe. More people in debates should say what they believe.

The problem is when people don't want to reveal what they believe. These people know their assumptions and conclusions are socially unacceptable. Socially unacceptable beliefs make people feel socially isolated. This isolation creates a pressure in them so great that when someone asks them to continue speaking, they cannot stop. They are so used to being told to stop that they don't know how to handle someone asking them to speak.

By now it's clear that the trap has been set. When they reveal their true beliefs, they temporarily forget that they are in front of an audience. They have unwittingly been made part of a performance they didn't want to be in, but at this point it is too late. The audience here is the true judge, and the audience is a harsh critic. The audience enjoys the theatrics of the villain performing their grand reveal and they enjoy the justice in seeing them make this critical error.

So many subversives couch their true beliefs in meta-irony. finger on nose "Am I joking about these reprehensible beliefs or do I really believe them? We'll never know but we're making it ok to say them. uwu." The end results are the same. Either they will learn not to say them - eventually eradicating the belief, or they will say them and the audience will learn from them not to believe them. As you are well aware, I'm ok with both.

Post reply on HN