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This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

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Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#171

Post by Grustaf »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #154
coder543 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not about money [citation needed] It can be about more than one thing at the same time, but it certainly seems likely to be about the money. Apple wants people to use the App Store on their Mac more. Those apps can be malicious too[0], but you don't see Apple warning you before you download or open them. [0]: one of the first links on google, but this is not an isolated incident: https://appleinsider.com/art…

> It can be about more than one thing at the same time Indeed. Remember we live in a world where Tim Cook can say in court that he has "a feeling" the App Store is profitable, and that is apparently where it is left.

What's the connection?

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#172

Post by unfocussed_mike »

sersi wrote: post #114
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #39

I am puzzled that he really appears to find it funny. I am a long-time Mac user and I find myself fervently hoping that Apple has made the completely unnecessary self-own that will finally help people forget the whole keyboard fiasco. This is the most staggering example of deliberate, bad-faith arrogance that they could have come up with. If Apple is now the kind of business that joyfully thumbs its nose at regulator…

I think he finds it funny in the same way Netflix Death to 2021 is funny or SNL jokes about Trump were funny. It's a way to laugh at a terrible situation. Black sarcastic humour when honestly things really suck.

I am very fond of sarcastic humour but in this case I don't read it as sarcastic.

Fatalistic, maybe, on reflection. But in this case it's a pretty toxic addition to the discourse.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#174

Post by JumpCrisscross »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #47
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right now my 40 year old car still runs just fine But it doesn’t have modern safety features, to say nothing of its fuel efficiency. > that's because public infrastructure still supports it Public infrastructure supports old computers fine. Just like with old cars, people value the new things being brought to the table. That doesn’t mean every new feature is wanted. But on the balance, most people upgrade their pho…

Computers and phones are in fundamentally different categories because one has open software and the other doesn't. Whether you or people in aggregate choose to do things is distinct from whether they are effectively forced via planned obsolescence. That's what makes it planned. I know that my old car has lower fuel efficiency. It's actually not that bad, my 20 year old car gets about 45-50 UK MPG, a new one of the s…

> Computers and phones are in fundamentally different categories because one has open software and the other doesn't

I have a grandparent who uses the same phone we got her a decade ago. It runs entirely on closed-source software. It works fine. Same for the Windows computer we got her five years before that. Meanwhile, my friend who runs AOSP on his phone has a new device every six months.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#175

Post by Aldo_MX »

judge2020 wrote: post #161
huhtenberg wrote: post #33

But, wait! It gets even better [1]: - Cannot also support IAP - Website links are all to a single URL specified in Info.plist with no parameters - Must submit monthly report to Apple listing EVERY external transaction All for measly 27% of the sales proceeds. A total steal. Apple's really jerking on the regulators' chain. I sure hope they continue in the same vein, because the fallout will be spectacular. [1] https:/…

So how much should they charge developers for access to continued iOS improvements and updates? What if they had to pay a license fee for access to each new iOS version's APIs?

99 / year is not enough???

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#176

Post by mbreese »

Aldo_MX wrote: post #166
disgu wrote: post #132

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm at a point where I'll simply not purchase any service if I cannot use the in app form of payment. I'm just done with everything else. If I miss out on something then so be it. Have you ever bought an Adobe subscription, ever tried to cancel a New York Times subscription? Or Audible where they say "Well, you can cancel but then we'll also take the tokens you've already paid fo…

I agree 100% with you, but here's the thing: That peace of mind has a price. As long as Apple lets me charge you twice the price I'll play by their IAP rules.

But that's one of the things Apple is selling - peace of mind. The customer knows they will be able to cancel subscriptions, get refunds, security, etc...

And if those are conditions the customer and developer are okay with, then everyone wins.

I agree -- easy has a price. But it's one of the benefits of the walled garden. And it's one that a lot of customers are willing to pay, just to avoid the hassles involved with other systems.

(There are other benefits and downsides, but that's another thread).

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#177

Post by coder543 »

jsiepkes wrote: post #156
disgu wrote: post #132

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm at a point where I'll simply not purchase any service if I cannot use the in app form of payment. I'm just done with everything else. If I miss out on something then so be it. Have you ever bought an Adobe subscription, ever tried to cancel a New York Times subscription? Or Audible where they say "Well, you can cancel but then we'll also take the tokens you've already paid fo…

Fine, but apps should be allowed to let you pay via alternative methods and also allow you to pay via Apple and charge you the 30% extra costs which Apple wants. I highly doubt you would pay 30% more just so you can pay via Apple.

43% more, in point of fact.

If an IAP is $15, then $4.5 of that goes to Apple. If you priced the direct payment option at $10.50, then $15 is 43% more expensive.

And this is the whole reason Apple doesn't want developers to be able to offer both IAPs and direct payment at the same time... it would make Apple look like the bad guy (a horrifying thought!), and they might feel pressured to lower their percentage to something more reasonable.

If Apple would switch to a usage based model more like AWS's where they charge for actual resource consumption (review requests, app store bandwidth, etc., maybe even with some kind of "free tier" to help very small developers who are still paying $99/year) then that would make more sense... but a 30% surcharge for every transaction is just absurd.

If credit card companies tried to charge 30%, the uproar would be so loud that no would be able to sleep for days, and you know businesses would instantly be offering steep discounts for people paying in cash. Apple has demonstrated that they want to eventually charge a 30% tax on all economic activity[0]... the App Store is more than just a place to download Angry Birds these days. Apple's 30% transaction fee is unsustainable. (I feel the same about Google's Play Store fees too, but at least Android allows sideloading and PWAs support push notifications there, giving developers and consumers some options.)

[0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/technology/apple-app-stor...

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#178

Post by koenneker »

causi wrote: post #24
myspy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a problem with the Facebook, the Microsoft, the Epic store with all different rules and payment methods. Having them to cross a common threshold is better for me as an end user.

Then use the common threshold. I'm sure Epic would happy to keep a version of their games on the App Store with all prices inflated by thirty percent.

No they wouldn't. They already pulled Rocket League from the steam store[1] after purchasing their developer. There is no reason they would treat ios any different

[1]https://store.steampowered.com/app/252950/Rocket_League/

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#179

Post by bogwog »

scarface74 wrote: post #159
bogwog wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is completely incorrect. Apple will feel the hurt if they lose a market with 17 million people. They won’t go out of business, but whoever was adjacent to that decision will be losing their job.

Out of those 17 million (which when Apple was still giving out number of iPhones sold was about a quarter’s worth of sales in a low quarter)… - not all are buying iPhones - roughly 3 million of the population are under 15.

That doesn’t make a difference. The long term growth opportunities in a country are huge, and for a company the size Apple, any opportunity for growth is extremely valuable.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#180

Post by smoldesu »

scarface74 wrote: post #153
smoldesu wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. The "blue bubble" effect is strongest in the United States, and Apple's most iconic catchphrase under Steve Jobs was "it just works". If that's not the hallmark of a technology product being adapted to a lifestyle product, I'm really not sure what is.

So you believe that 60% of Americans on average spend twice as much on iPhone, just for the “blue bubble”? There couldn’t possibly be any other reason? So technology products shouldn’t “just work”?

The "blue bubble" isn't just about iMessage, it's a colloquialism for how Apple's social marketing works. They have proprietary, closed protocols like Airdrop and Facetime that intentionally create friction between people on iOS and Android. It's a phrase for their marketing gimmicks that make vulnerable shoppers buy the products their friends have because they don't want to be left out. It's about the fashion statement and social pressure that goes into buying and owning a phone; Apple markets themselves as the solution to that. Much in the same way that celebrities spend inordinate amounts of money on useless and gaudy accessories, the iPhone is a token of mediocre wealth and being socially "in".
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