GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful • Hacker News Board

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#171

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Feb 02, 2022, 2:31 PM UTC

Nextgrid wrote: post #163

endisneigh wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Advertising companies are ruining the internet for everyone, some people are just too unaware to realise it. Sounds like projection. Though I'd agree that most internet users don't like ads, what's true is that most internet users don't like paying for things. Using YouTube as an example, the most popular site on the internet, the vast majority of people do not pay for YouTube premium even though it's available. At…

A lot of content on the internet isn't worth paying for. Taking your YT Premium example, I'd say over half the content on there is garbage clickbait that is only viable because of ads - it doesn't actually provide enough value to the viewer (and often completely wastes their time) but the current system rewards that because by the time the viewer realizes that it's already too late and they've been paid for their ad…

I highly doubt you've personally watched even 1% of what's on YouTube, so you can hardly determine what's clickbait. That being said, who are we to say what's valuable?

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#172

Post by parkingrift » Wed, Feb 02, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #120

parkingrift wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transparency. People are overwhelmingly unaware of the volume and types of data that is collected on them. And at this point the free market can’t resolve this. The spyware model has absolutely ruined the internet economy. There is no way to compete against a spyware company with a paid product.

If people are choosing "spyware" over a "paid" product, perhaps they just don't care about data collection that much. Isn't that the logical conclusion? Objectively ads have added more money into the internet economy than ever before. Curious where you're getting your numbers. 20 years ago "YouTuber" wasn't even a profession. The idea some rando with a microphone and a camera could make millions was unheard of. It's…

You're conflating ads with spyware. Ads have existed as long as commerce has existed. Ads don't need spyware.

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#173

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Feb 02, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

9dev wrote: post #162

endisneigh wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Advertising companies are ruining the internet for everyone, some people are just too unaware to realise it. Sounds like projection. Though I'd agree that most internet users don't like ads, what's true is that most internet users don't like paying for things. Using YouTube as an example, the most popular site on the internet, the vast majority of people do not pay for YouTube premium even though it's available. At…

I think the point is that megacorps' business structure is way too complex for anyone to actually understand. Why is Gmail free? It makes money for Google, that part is clear, but I have no idea how exactly. I'm not even sure they can measure it exactly. Those companies have transformed the internet, and its users, by offering services for free, in exchange for user data. We have raised an entire generation (two, may…

> Of course, we cannot simply ban all advertising and start charging for everything. But I'm of the firm opinion that, in order to go forward, we have to leave this business model behind, as humanity. The only way to achieve this is by making it unattractive via legislation.

What exactly are you proposing? Anyone who wants to pay for email can do so already.

It's very trivial to not use any of Google's services or be tracked. Install uBlock, and don't go to any Google or subsidiary service. Done.

What exactly is the issue?

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#174

Post by Nextgrid » Wed, Feb 02, 2022, 2:32 PM UTC

littlecranky67 wrote: post #112

Anybody wants to shed some light what exactly was illegal at the consent popups? I think Google, Microsoft and others use all different/branded popups, so I would want to know what the problem is there.

From a UI point of view, the failures I typically see is that agreeing to everything is easy but declining is difficult despite both options needing to be equally prominent.

From a technical point of view, the tracking scripts are often loaded to begin with (where your IP address & browser fingerprint is already leaked) and declining tracking merely "asks them nicely" with no guarantee they'll obey the signal or whether the already-collected data (from just loading the script) will be deleted.

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#175

Post by oezi » Wed, Feb 02, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

csomar wrote: post #61

Coming up next: Full page with mandatory reading (through eye scanning which will require camera access with popup consent for camera access). Followed by a 10 Quizzes to test your understanding for what you consented for. Then an email/ID verification to confirm your identity and consent. This is going to be fun.

But the good part is you can just decline to consent. Because under GDPR if they need consent at all (that is they really don't need the data), then you can decline.

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#176

Post by phh » Wed, Feb 02, 2022, 2:33 PM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #115

phh wrote: post #6

My favorite part is: > All data collected through the TCF must now be deleted by the more than 1,000 companies that pay IAB Europe to use the TCF. This includes Google’s, Amazon’s and Microsoft’s online advertising businesses. It's not just that they need to find new ways to screw users. It's that since they screwed users, they also must lose their ill-gained data. Which will probably be a nice deterrent against them…

How are they screwing users? By showing them relevant ads?

Under GDPR, users are perfectly free to want relevant ads.

Users are getting screwed by IAB, because IAB does their best to remove users that freedom.

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#177

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Feb 02, 2022, 2:34 PM UTC

parkingrift wrote: post #172

endisneigh wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are choosing "spyware" over a "paid" product, perhaps they just don't care about data collection that much. Isn't that the logical conclusion? Objectively ads have added more money into the internet economy than ever before. Curious where you're getting your numbers. 20 years ago "YouTuber" wasn't even a profession. The idea some rando with a microphone and a camera could make millions was unheard of. It's…

You're conflating ads with spyware. Ads have existed as long as commerce has existed. Ads don't need spyware.

How do you propose you track ad spend without "spyware"? Or should the people spending money on ads just "trust" that their ads are actually being displayed to the types of people they want to show them to?

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#178

Post by Nextgrid » Wed, Feb 02, 2022, 2:35 PM UTC

marketingtech wrote: post #166

cstross wrote: post #143

Some crazy figures here: The maximum fine for such a breach is 4% of the company's global revenue. Microsoft, in 2021, turned over $168Bn. Google turned over $181.69Bn. Amazon turned over a staggering $457.96. Between them they had a combined turnover of $807.65Bn, making them liable for a fine of up to $32.3Bn per year (assuming revenue is flat and they all get hit for the maximum penalty and don't do any kind of da…

IAB Europe is the entity being fined, not their participating partners. The linked PDF says their fine is 250k euros, which is "proportionate to the infringment" and less than the maximum.

Seems like the IAB is essentially volunteering to be the scapegoat to shield everyone else. 250k is peanuts compared to how much the industry has made breaching the GDPR over the last 4 years.

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#179

Post by endisneigh » Wed, Feb 02, 2022, 2:35 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #160

endisneigh wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people are choosing "spyware" over a "paid" product, perhaps they just don't care about data collection that much. Isn't that the logical conclusion? Objectively ads have added more money into the internet economy than ever before. Curious where you're getting your numbers. 20 years ago "YouTuber" wasn't even a profession. The idea some rando with a microphone and a camera could make millions was unheard of. It's…

Suppose there are two products on the market. One, a children’s toy that sells for $9.99. The other a very similar children’s toy that uses lead paint, instead of a safer paint, but is otherwise very similar. It is not clearly labeled as having lead paint. The lead paint toy sells for $4.99. If people buy the cheaper toy, does that mean people are “choosing” lead paint over the more expensive toy? No! It means people…

You're comparing seeing ads with children consuming lead paint?

Lead paint has very obvious, bodily harm to children. Do ads harm children? Perhaps, but even if they did, there's no cost to visit a free-site without ads, or pay for a site without ads.

Re: GDPR enforcer rules that IAB Europe’s consent popups are unlawful

#180

Post by alextheparrot » Wed, Feb 02, 2022, 2:35 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #97

alextheparrot wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how true this is, many types of data have diminishing returns after a few months. I’d be surprised if they lost money compared to not using these methods —- they’ve just lost the tail of incremental value.

Millions of Google Analytics customers with suddenly blank histories going back (years?) will notice quite a bit, whole classes of employees basically just make charts about historical performance. Attribution in advertising is something which can last months for some products, and it's doubtful that a large proportion of companies import from GA and will lose their ability to gauge current performance compared to th…

I agree with your position that people will notice and that some attributions will be affected.

It seems like we’ve still given cake to the glutton, though, just without a cherry on top.