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Why can't you reverse a string with a flag emoji?

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Re: Why can't you reverse a string with a flag emoji?

#171

Post by McBeige »

egypturnash wrote: post #88
treesknees wrote: post #42

But you can, and did, reverse a string. It seems you would need more details, such as a request to reverse the meaning or interpretation of the string, which is what the author is getting at. If someone challenges you to reverse an image, what do you do? Do you invert the colors? Mirror horizontally? Mirror vertically? Just reverse the byte order?

Galaxy brain image reversal: completely redraw it from scratch, with a viewpoint 180º from the original.

If the FoV is less than 180deg then any image would be a realistic solution as long as it doesn't depict anything from the original.

Re: Why can't you reverse a string with a flag emoji?

#173

Post by fomine3 »

mike_hock wrote: post #135
masklinn wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It always feels like the most amount of work goes to the least used emoji. I always feel like those emoji were added on purpose in order to force implementations to fix their unicode support. Before emoji were added, most software had completely broken support for anything beyond the BMP (case study: MySQL's so-called "UTF8" encoding). The introduction of emoji, and their immediate popularity, forced many systems t…

WTF business do emojis have in Unicode? The BMP is all there ever should have been. Standardize the actual writing systems of the world, so everyone can write in their language. And once that is done, the standard doesn't need to change for a hundred years. What we need now is a standardized, sane subset of Unicode that implementations can support while rejecting the insane scope creep that got added on top of that.…

BMP was failed concept even without emoji 16bit isn't enough to contain all CJK characters.

Re: Why can't you reverse a string with a flag emoji?

#174

Post by fomine3 »

emodendroket wrote: post #114

What I'd like to know is, given the explosion of the character set for emoji, does the rationale for Han unification still make sense? The case for not allowing national variants seems less and less compelling with every emoji they add. This is a bit of a hobby horse, but imagine if every time you read an article in English on your phone some of the letters were replaced with "equivalent" Greek or Cyrillic one and yo…

Han unification was a try to fit CJK characters into 16bit BMP. Finally BMP is failed so meaningless but reverting it also produces huge compatibility issue.

Re: Why can't you reverse a string with a flag emoji?

#175

Post by zarzavat »

This reminds me of an interesting bug I saw where I was seeing a strange flag in some Arabic text. However when I copied the string and pasted it into a text editor, the flag of Saudi Arabia appeared instead (which made much more sense). After some vexillologic research on Wikipedia I identified the original flag as American Samoa and it suddenly all made sense. Turns out some broken RTL support was flipping the SA into AS at presentation.

Re: Why can't you reverse a string with a flag emoji?

#176

Post by lmm »

saltminer wrote: post #157
mike_hock wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WTF business do emojis have in Unicode? The BMP is all there ever should have been. Standardize the actual writing systems of the world, so everyone can write in their language. And once that is done, the standard doesn't need to change for a hundred years. What we need now is a standardized, sane subset of Unicode that implementations can support while rejecting the insane scope creep that got added on top of that.…

> WTF business do emojis have in Unicode? Unicode didn't invent emoji, they incorporated it because they were already popular in Japan, and if they didn't incorporate it, it would greatly reduce Japanese adoption. Keep in mind that Unicode was intended to unify all the disparate encodings that had been brewed up to support different languages and which made exchanging documents between non-English speaking countries…

> The term "mojibake" comes to mind [0] - Japan alone had so many encodings that a slang term for text encoded with something different than what your device expected (and subsequently got rendered as nonsensical/garbled text) came about.

Mojibake was not a "Japan has too many encodings" problem. It was a "western developers assume everyone is using CP1252" problem.

> Unicode wasn't intended to be pretty. It was intended to be the one system that everyone used, and a way to increase adoption was to do some less than ideal things, like duplicate characters (so it would be easier to convert to Unicode).

Unfortunately they undermined all that with Han Unification, with the result that it's never going to be adopted in Japan.

Re: Why can't you reverse a string with a flag emoji?

#177

Post by lmm »

Findecanor wrote: post #160
Gigachad wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument was lost the moment Unicode was created. Japanese carriers had created their own standard for emoji encoding for sms. And they would not switch to Unicode unless the emoji were ported over. It’s a tricky situation. Maybe allowing an arbitrary bitmap char to represent any emoji would have been better but then we could have ended up in a situation where normal text or meaningful punctuation or perhaps eve…

I don't think that argument holds water. Emoji could just as well have been encoded as markup. There were for instance long-established conventions of using strings starting with : and ; . Bulletin boards extended that to a convention using letters delimited by : for example :rolleyes: . Not to mention that those codes can be typed more efficiently than browsing in an Emoji Picker box. Because emoji became characters…

> Emoji could just as well have been encoded as markup.

They could have, but they were already being encoded as character codepoints in existing charactersets. So any character encoding scheme that wanted to replace all use cases for existing charactersets needed to match that. If switching charactersets meant you lost the ability to use emoji until you upgraded all your applications to support some markup format, people would just not switch.

Re: Why can't you reverse a string with a flag emoji?

#178

Post by lmm »

kingcharles wrote: post #139
mike_hock wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WTF business do emojis have in Unicode? The BMP is all there ever should have been. Standardize the actual writing systems of the world, so everyone can write in their language. And once that is done, the standard doesn't need to change for a hundred years. What we need now is a standardized, sane subset of Unicode that implementations can support while rejecting the insane scope creep that got added on top of that.…

Have emoji not become part of our writing structure though? A decent percentage of online chats and comments, especially on social networks, includes at least one emoji that couldn't be easily or accurately represented in the regular written language.

Recently implementers of unicode have censored the gun emoji in a way that changes the meaning of many existing online chats and comments. So you can't easily or accurately represent things even with unicode.

Emoji have never been effective or consistent at conveying meaning; at best they convey something to someone in the same subculture and time period, and often not even that. Given that unicode implementers are ok with erasing the meaning of some of them, it should be ok to eliminate more of them.

Re: Why can't you reverse a string with a flag emoji?

#179

Post by lmm »

amelius wrote: post #156
coreyp_1 wrote: post #53

If you think the Unicode flag emoji take a lot of bytes, then consider the family emoji! ( https://unicode.org/emoji/charts/full-emoji-list.html#family ) I'm in the process of designing a scripting language and implementing it in C++. I plan to put together a YouTube series about it. (Doesn't everyone want to see Bison and Flex mixed with proper unit tests and C++20 code?) Due to my future intended use case, I needed…

Why is this stuff even reinvented for every programming language? Isn't it about time that we have some common language that every other language builds on?

ICU is out there with bindings in many languages. People who know what they're doing use ICU.

Re: Why can't you reverse a string with a flag emoji?

#180

Post by egypturnash »

McBeige wrote: post #171
egypturnash wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Galaxy brain image reversal: completely redraw it from scratch, with a viewpoint 180º from the original.

If the FoV is less than 180deg then any image would be a realistic solution as long as it doesn't depict anything from the original.

My intent here is "same subject, but now you're standing on the other side of it", not "same viewer location but turned 180º".

For instance, if you started with an image of the Washington Monument with the Lincoln Memorial in the background, the "reverse" would be an image of the Washington Monument with assorted Smithsonian museum buildings behind it. Or whatever you theorize would be on the east of the Washington Monument if no reference is available.

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