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Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

thomask.sdf.org

171–180 of 231 posts

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even for software where ‘zero bugs’ was important they’d just delete a whole bunch of bugs and see if any bounce (come back). Eventually people get sick of refilling so they get to zero but bounce by exhausting the very people eying time help them. The open-source equivalent of this behaviour is "stale bots" that close or lock issues with no activity. Or "moving discussion to a separate tracker", with all bugs gett…

Those bots drive me insane; it punishes the most helpful the most. I would much rather they leave it open. I often find myself digging around closed issues to find people with similar problems.

My favorite thing about stalebots: using the reaction emojis doesn't count (afaict) so me-tooing is encouraged.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Phillip, you are a very unusual PM in a very unusual group that is able to derive a lot of value from user feedback who are usually very technical experts. I'm not sure how much your personal experience generalizes. Same could be said for my experience I guess so that is a fair point. I definitely had a bad time at a bad group. In the Steves era there were a lot of bad groups. I predate your tenure by quite a bit…

Eh, not too unusual! Not everyone is the same, but the care factor is high for my previous peers, most of whom are still there. I can also appreciate that for consumer tech things are different. There is a higher degree of "it just needs to work" because it's unlikely the average user can articulate what's wrong, and they shouldn't need to anyways. One thing I'll say is that it really does feel like the worst decisio…

Again, you were in a very unusual group. I agree you have peers that do care a lot, my statement was hyperbole, I didn't literally mean that no-one cares. One must also weigh the caring by those with the ability to effect change. Microsoft is still a very top down org so you have to look a Julia Liuson and Scott Guthrie to get an idea of what will happen. AFAIK both of them respect Don Syme enough to provide political coverage for you and your colleagues so that you all could focus more on your jobs instead of office politics. But I feel that neither will fund F# enough to unleash it's potential. Visual Studio has stupid F# bugs and AFAIK they won't get fixed. And really, leaning on the constantly breaking 3rd party open source plugin Ionide for F# VS Code support. I know people on the F# team (again an unusual team) care about it but Microsoft as an org doesn't care enough. And not to mention the dogs breakfast that is Win11.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#173
post #152

I once even spotted a Microsoft employee who took the time to raise their concerns on the public tracker: That is just incredibly exasperating to see. When even MS employees are being forced to "bend over and take it", you'd think there would be some sort of "find the people responsible for this shitshow in the Windows team inside MS, and keep emailing them to fix it" protest. That one employee he noticed seemed to h…

Internally, Microsoft is chock full of super pissed-off people. Everyone's pissed at everyone else, since everyone there is constantly bombarded by angry friends' and relatives' complaints. A decade under Ballmer of firing anyone who wasn't good enough at weaseling ("unregretted attrition") has resulted in a company full of people who literally don't work at all 90% of the time. The company does an insane amount of s…

>you're going to run into bugs all the time

yet it doesn't reflect reality

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#174
post #39

Just want to say how much of a pleasure it is to use any ol' minimal gnu distro compared to this mess. Not as polished as Win95 or 2000, but at least everything is consensual.

Aye, I found myself compiling some stuff on windows 10 the other day, not having used it at all, and other windows versions in years. It really felt downright hostile, with advertisements in the start menu, popups prodding me to make a microsoft account, and I only used the damn thing for like 2 hours. I returned to linux with a newfound appreciation for how it just does what I want it to, and isn't trying to sell me…

> It really felt downright hostile, with advertisements in the start menu, popups prodding me to make a microsoft account, and I only used the damn thing for like 2 hours.

I really wish tech companies would look at users as customers who are willing to spend more for better and more useful software, instead of looking at users as commodities ripe for monetization.

When I use Windows I feel like I'm living in a refugee campl and I've entered a digital flea market where the PA announces every 10 minutes you have to get your parking ticket stamped, and you can get a no-admission charge get pass for $10 per month. The market has everything... there are some deals to be had, but you have to lookout for pickpockets and scammers at every turn. The camp? Well, I have to pay for protection (hi antivirus and antimalware industry) and I have to teach my family how to stay safe. It also feels like the host-state for the camp can change the rules at any moment.

When I use a Mac, I feel like I'm living in an apartment and I've walked into the company-run Super Target. The apartment is really nice, but there are lots of little rules. The store? it's a clean, modern place. The prices are higher than down the street, and the products on the shelf are a little different. It certainly feels a lot safer than the flea market. As long as I like the inventory and can afford the extra cost, the experience is great. The painful part is the apartment rules. Sometimes I want to do things Apple doesn't want me to, and well, the apartment isn't mine.

When I use Linux, I feel like I'm in my own home. It's safe. I own it. No one tells me what I'm allowed to do.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#175
post #36

I also spent quite a lot of time during the Windows 10 preview phase, and a while after release, diligently reporting bugs, and voting on well thought-out feature requests. But after noticing that none of these bugs ever got any attention, and how the Feedback Hub was mostly just noise, I started to wonder why I even did free work for a multi-billion dollar company, on my own time. Right around that period I switched…

Just want to say that the time you spend reporting bugs on Linux environments is not in vain but much appreciated. I try to give back to the community and spend time fixing issues people have for the Linux desktops MATE and XFCE, at least a few times a year.

Are there any Linux desktops that don't require you to sign up for an account to submit a crash report, and keep crash report details private until triage? That has kept me from reporting reproducible bugs in KDE apps before.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#176
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably referring to this behavior from TFA: > Previously you could choose to “never combine” apps so you had one-click access to each document. Now you are required to use two mouse actions to open each. If you have "foo.txt" and "bar.txt" open in, say, notepad, you get one notepad icon on your taskbar that you click on once to open the list of windows and then once more to actually switch. Previously you could tel…

In windows 10, in a multimonitor setup with "never combined" enabled. If foo.txt is on the left monitor and bar.txt is on the right, the two icons in the taskbar almost always has opposite sort order compared to the the monitor layout. Clicking the left icon bring up the document on the right monitor and clicking the icon to the right brings up the document on the left. You very often end up picking the wrong documen…

Haven't seen this, perhaps because there's a setting in 10 to only show icons on the taskbar where the item is open, which I enable.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#177
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I distro hop with my home laptops and use Windows at $JOB I've decided to install Windows 11 preview around June 2021 and have been using it ever since, so I could eventually help my coworkers, validate our workflows etc... I am curious on why people in HN dislike Win 11 so much. For me the upgrade was basically about minor UI changes, which I got used to in 1-2 weeks. I am a sysadmin / cloud whatever and it broke no…

The UI changes are very disruptive to other people. As an example, think all the people who for decades placed the taskbar on the side. Also, the bullshit minimum requirements are obviously about pushing DRM.

Minimum requirements were about pushing TPM (massive boost to chain of trust and security based on internal metrics) and hardware sales.

Source: I’m an insider.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#178
post #168
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People hate Windows 11 because Microsoft have decided that most hardware, including many powerful workstations, are not eligible to upgrade.

I will have to agree that's by far the most legit reason to hate Win 11.

it was such a relief when i got the notification that my laptop was not eligible for a Windows 11 upgrade.

for a long time i have been debating whether i should try a MacBook M1 for my hobby projects or not. i don't use Windows for anything else. and migrating my projects would be a pain, but not a huge one.

they made the decision for me. (and other people like me, who had only one or two reasons to remain on Windows.)

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#179
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YIKES! This is literally the one and only setting I change right when I install Windows. I'm glad I found out it's totally unsupported before I went and took the plunge on 11. I guess I'll either skip 11 or wait for the update that fixes some of this jank.

The new design philosophy is ‘more familiar to on those unfamiliar with Windows’ I.e. Apple users. It also means they’re not interested in hearing how it used to work as you’re the exact opposite of who they’re trying to target.

> The new design philosophy is ‘more familiar to on those unfamiliar with Windows’ I.e. Apple users.

If they really wanted to that then:

* too bad they only copied one superficial aspect without the others needed for it to make sense

* there is actually no reason to remove the option for the sane behavior, only the default has to be kind of Mac like

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#180

> W11 taskbar is missing several key pieces of functionality which have incentivised new users to get into Feedback Hub and cast votes. By far the biggest and most controversial submission is about having multiple documents open in the same app. Actually the same reason for me to give feedback during W11 beta. Liked the beta as it gave me access to WSLg, but the productivity loss of the taskbar being useless made me…

> Mac We have to use Macs at my new job, for compliance reasons. What a shitshow of UX. How on earth is anyone supposed to know to use snowflake-click to switch between app instances? That isn't "strictly [better] than Win 11" (per the article), because at least the method in Win 11 is discoverable (there's also the well behaving alt+tab, and win-number). You have to use snowflake-C + snowflake-V, unlike every other…

MacOS has a very powerful built-in shortcut changing system that appears to date all the way back to NextStep based on some of the names of prefs and plists to change.

But, every Electron app and productivity website hard-codes the old Mac shortcuts based on naive platform detection instead of using native OS inputs, so the muscle memory conflict is even worse.

To anyone who just "doesn't get" this complaint, which is a lot of people I have met, it's like riding a bike your whole life to the point of being able to do downhill mountain terrain races, and then switching to a bike with the steering reversed, while wearing image distorting glasses. Except it's worse, because it feels more like someone chopped off your fingers and reattached them in random places.

It is literally nauseating, because when you are so deeply familiar with a complex tool it becomes an extension of your proprioception, and the tool misbehaving feels like you've been poisoned.

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