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Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

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Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#171
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) It was mostly manual, though AIs were useful in certain filtering tasks. 2) Depends on the quality you are seeking. If you only want one run of a similar, off-the-shelf model, around the 1000s is enough. But at the number of iterations you have to run to build your own and improve results, you probably need about 100k. To tackle this problem, we built our own supercomputer off of parts we bought off of ebay, thoug…

Very curious about the computer, what are the internals?

Not the OP, but my guess would be threadrippers (or similar w/lots of PCIe lanes), each with a great number of GPUs. That's usually what you'd do for training AI in a home lab.

Server processors gets you more bang for the buck... iff you're planning to run the hardware flat out for literally years. You save on power, but the up-front cost takes up most of that, so for a system that's mostly idle you wouldn't use them. On the other hand, any CPU with fewer PCIe lanes than a TR won't be able to run multiple GPUs optimally, and TRs are relatively cheap enough to make the reduction in PSUs/chassises worth it.

Not to mention that there are some approaches to training you can only use if you have multiple GPUs on the same motherboard, aka. sharding a single model across GPUs without communications overhead killing any benefit of that.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#173

This is extremely impressive. It’s the first GAN I have seen which lets you tweak the result in a meaningful way rather than being just random. I think the speed that GANs have come in to the world has really shaken people up and it’s hard to process what this all means and what it will result in. Especially the ones which generate based on real people. But the feeling this gives me, is what happens for the future of…

> But the feeling this gives me, is what happens for the future of art. Sure, this example is no where even close to replacing real artists, but it’s already generating images better than I can draw after a year of practice. It does give me a feeling of “what is the point”. Which might be an irrational feeling, but I’m sure others feel the same.

There's a similar situation ongoing with fiction writing, by way of NovelAI. (And some competitors, but NovelAI is head and shoulders ahead of the pack. Thankfully; they seem to be the nicest of the lot.)

I'm a fairly prolific (fan-)fiction writer, and also AI enthusiast, so of course I jumped on that bandwagon as soon as I could. What I've found is...

- AI cannot write stories on its own. It just can't, full stop. Some people try, including me, but the results are nonsensical without significant tweaking. I expect that to change eventually, but not without a conceptual breakthrough or two.

- AI is immensely useful as a prosthetic imagination.

What I use it for isn't to write the story for me. It's to, in case I ever get stuck at some point, offer me suggestions for how the story can continue -- suggestions that I can accept or deny. Even if I deny it, it's useful as a way of illuminating my own ideas for the story. There's got to be a reason I don't like that continuation, and that is often enough to think of something I do like.

In other words, it's mostly eliminated writer's block.

It's also handy for expanding my vocabulary. English is my third language, and while I like to think I'm good enough for daily life -- I've lived in Ireland for over a decade, after all -- there's a big difference between 'good enough for daily life' and 'good enough to write good fiction'. Prior to using NovelAI, my writing was... dry. Conceptually heavy SF doesn't necessarily require high-end wordcrafting, but it helps.

The AI, especially when told to emulate Sheridan Le Fanu or any of the other great authors, is better than me at this. And since I can ask it to jump in at any point, it's become the most attentive, capable cowriter I've ever had. Perhaps noticing this, NovelAI now calls their default AI tuning 'Co-Writer'.

It's still likely to write something I can't immediately use, but that just means I need to absorb its ideas and make them my own. Repeat a hundred times per day, and I end up learning much, much faster than I ever did when I was writing on my own.

To summarize, I don't use AI to write my stories for me. I use it to get better at writing.

I think it should be possible to do the same for other forms of art.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#174
post #83
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There isn't any AI either. It's machine learning, i.e., statistical models and algorithms. I always thaught those were synonyms.

Both the A and the I in AI are debatable terms. The sole definition of intelligence is under heavy load of reconsideration the last decades with the emergence of a better knowledge of animal cognition, for example.

Why is the A[rtificial] under debate? It's not natural (biological) intelligence, unless one goes the route "humans are a part of nature therefore the things we make like plastic and skyscrapers and hamburgers are natural".

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#175
post #74

This isn't really creativity is it? I like to call stuff like this statistical copying, and indeed, the linked Wikipedia article on GANs says: > Given a training set, this technique learns to generate new data with the same statistics as the training set. There isn't a creative process here nor any creative introspection going on. While the technical results are impressive, this article does not address creativity ev…

One of the things being an anime fan has made me realize is how the industry goes through phases in everything: gimmicks, art styles, tropes, etc. This can at best replicate what exists, but it cannot create new styles which honestly comes from the creative process of hundreds to thousands of artists creating and influencing one another.

People keep forgetting that you really can only fit to data you have. Extrapolation exists as a concept but the requisite intuitive knowledge needed in order to create something new that can be successful is hard to understand even by humans at this point (how much of the business press is full of gimmicky blogposts about how to be successful, full of contradictory anecdata, opinions, advices), I don't even know how AI researchers would go about tackling that. I am not an AI person but as a plain old scientist I know extrapolation without intuition is almost always a fraught effort.

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#176
post #172

Quoted post unavailable.

Painting with a brush stroke set to galaxy levels. I'm not saying there isn't creepy anime, or even creepy motifs in excellent anime. But that stuff sells over there.

I'm not assessing whether it is creepy or not, but how can 'it sells' have any place in that argument?

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#178
post #74

This isn't really creativity is it? I like to call stuff like this statistical copying, and indeed, the linked Wikipedia article on GANs says: > Given a training set, this technique learns to generate new data with the same statistics as the training set. There isn't a creative process here nor any creative introspection going on. While the technical results are impressive, this article does not address creativity ev…

What makes you think human creativity is anything more than statistical modelling? What else can it be, based as it is in a physical substrate? Objections like yours are usually a sneaky way of implying that human consciousness breaks free of the physical world, cartesian dualism hidden within people's arguments. "It cannot be creative because it's only bits/cogs/linear algebra/etc/etc." Well describe to me the way i…

You imply a bunch of things I didn't say. We don't have a definition or model of creativity or intelligence, even within humans and other animals. Most humans struggle to view other things as intelligent when they are at a close inspection. We have some mild understanding at a sort of system level, but it's usually enough to generally bin things up into not intelligent or not.

For something like the original post, we do know what these things are. They're statistical models. Full stop. They show no indication of what we see in creative and intelligent behavior, that is the ability to self-adapt to both internal and external initiatives. This GAN in the post has no ability to step outside of the statistics in the training set unless the model is updated to prod it to do so. The model can be changed, but it is a forceful change. If you show me tens of thousands of images, I am not, at an emergent, top-level, system level, etc., bounded to the statistics of that image set. Is this GAN asked something or given a goal aside from an implicit "draw something like what we've given you"? Even if I do draw something like or akin to the given image set, I have full creative control over the image (assuming some drawing skill).

If the human brain (and really body) can be modeled via a statistical model (which is not yet known but is surmised as you imply), that doesn't necessarily explain high-level behaviors. More is different. You call it magic sauce, but others call it emergence. Our understanding of emergent behavior and complex systems at large is still in work.

In my view, metaphorical thinking, of which analogical thinking is a subset, is a likely kernel of human intelligence. While these statistical models are copying, which is similar in a way to analogy building, it's not quite there. The reason things it generates looks like other things is because it searched a parameter space for matching statistics. However, it cannot even explain that's why it generated what it did. We explain for it. These things are no more artificially intelligent than things like thermodynamics are naturally intelligent.

Lastly, as I pointed out in my original comment, if this is indeed creative as someone like you implies, the article fails to make a convincing argument and bounces around a lot of buzzwords.

> I find it very irritating that such shallow reasoning prevails amongst intelligent people.

I was offended, but I suppose I agree. ;)

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#179
post #74

This isn't really creativity is it? I like to call stuff like this statistical copying, and indeed, the linked Wikipedia article on GANs says: > Given a training set, this technique learns to generate new data with the same statistics as the training set. There isn't a creative process here nor any creative introspection going on. While the technical results are impressive, this article does not address creativity ev…

One of the things being an anime fan has made me realize is how the industry goes through phases in everything: gimmicks, art styles, tropes, etc. This can at best replicate what exists, but it cannot create new styles which honestly comes from the creative process of hundreds to thousands of artists creating and influencing one another. People keep forgetting that you really can only fit to data you have. Extrapolat…

> but it cannot create new styles

Sure it can, but then it's not considered anime anymore. I think this sentiment is confusing genre with training set constraints. A new model is not required for some artist to do something different from anime or even an anime artist to do something different. Humans can self-adjust all with approximately the same base model (whatever that is).

Re: Welcome to Waifu Labs v2: How Do AIs Create?

#180
post #80
post #74

This isn't really creativity is it? I like to call stuff like this statistical copying, and indeed, the linked Wikipedia article on GANs says: > Given a training set, this technique learns to generate new data with the same statistics as the training set. There isn't a creative process here nor any creative introspection going on. While the technical results are impressive, this article does not address creativity ev…

> There isn't any AI either. It's machine learning, i.e., statistical models and algorithms. I always thaught those were synonyms.

AI has been co-opted as a synonym for machine learning, if only for marketing purposes. Machine learning existed for decades before it was "renamed" as AI.

I just don't see anything intelligent yet. People somehow have gotten confused with the success of machine learning being treated as intelligence. We have a lot of statistical models of things that are very successful, but those aren't considered intelligent. For reason, machine learning telling you something about data has suddenly been treated as AI. Machine learning can do some impressive things, but I think its short-sighted to equate AI and machine learning.

Intelligence is really a tough thing. Watching a video of even a single-cell organism displays a sort of intelligence and behavior far beyond anything I've seen of machine learning. So why is it intelligent? Or is it intelligent? I'm not entirely sure, but my point is that machine learning is orders of magnitude incapable of describing (i.e., modeling) even the simplest self-directed and self-adapting behavior that we see in the real world.

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