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A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

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Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#171

Post by nottorp »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #156
nottorp wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question. Does this government smart card work on anything but Windows? Or you need to buy a windows machine to go with your free smart card?

I can't rightly say that I am able to navigate the maze of standards and acronyms associated with smart cards, but the OpenSC tools on Linux have worked for me with a couple different smart cards (Nitrokey HSM and Taglio PIVKey). There are quirks. The Taglio PIVKey can't load certificates using OpenSC, but I've always generated the certificates on the device anyway.

Just because there is smart card software for Linux it doesn't mean it will work with $SOME_GOVERNMENT's interfaces.

Ofc in this case feldrim above pointed us to the mac/linux/etc downloads so the estonian government has actually heard there are other platforms besides Windows.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#172

Post by feldrim »

jve wrote: post #80
cycomanic wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always discover how Estonia is really amazing for lots of technology things. AFAIK they are by quite a margin the most advanced country in Europe when in comes to egovernment services. Moreover my (admittedly outside) impression is that they often go for technologically sound solutions not the ones which some large lobby organisation pushed for. This is particularly remarkable considering how small the country is,…

Good for our neighbors (And Hi!). Latvia is also advanced in regards to eservices :) We also get state issued ID card with PKI. We can access tons of services. Last I read I can buy a house, fully remotely. Including notary services via video call + all parties need to sign stuff with our ID card. We get health results via email as an encrypted pdf, where password is given at the time when I submit samples. Many busi…

The application allows Latvian ID card to be used in the Settings tab. So I learnt that it's applicable to your country too. I recently moved to Tallinn and just became a resident. The thing is they are capable of doing lots of things. And still, there are many things that can be improved.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#173

Post by jackson1442 »

lolsal wrote: post #147
causi wrote: post #2

Email is our only reliable communication method between different organizations. I'm still of the opinion there should be public-option internet services. Everyone deserves an e-mail address that cannot be taken away from them without a court order.

> Everyone deserves an e-mail address that cannot be taken away from them without a court order. Why?

Things you have to use email for:

* applying for jobs

* getting covid tests/vaccines

* buying virtually anything online

* interacting with the government online (I needed to provide an email address to update my driver's license and vehicle registration)

* opening a bank account

* renting an apartment

These are important things, so we might as well have some guaranteed way to access these services. Especially because you need an email to interact with a lot of government services.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#174

Post by jackson1442 »

dazc wrote: post #47
causi wrote: post #2

Email is our only reliable communication method between different organizations. I'm still of the opinion there should be public-option internet services. Everyone deserves an e-mail address that cannot be taken away from them without a court order.

This would also require everyone to have an email client to handle their email address though. I believe this the reason most folks have a gmail/outlook account because it's easy to set up and operate, not just because it gives them a unique-ish address?

Almost every computer and phone ships with an email client installed.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#175

Post by fisherjeff »

Sebb767 wrote: post #136
toyg wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do we know it's not money in a brown paper bag/briefcase One of the problems is that some of these checks can only be performed much later. The most common currency of choice, for modern bribes, is the promise of a fat gig in the private sector when the political career ends. As the public demands younger and younger political classes, with lower and lower salaries, while maintaining an appetite for career-endi…

> As the public demands younger and younger political classes, with lower and lower salaries Looking into the US senate, I fail to see that trend. In the last presidential election, both candidates were older than my grandparents. Even in my country, seeing a really young person in a political position is very rare. They exist (if you define "young" as under 40), but they are rare. I don't think age worries are a fac…

Senators are old but many of their staffers are young, underpaid, and, through their job, well-connected to industry. Perfect recipe for a revolving door.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#176

Post by abacadaba »

moffkalast wrote: post #82
qybaz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this day and age of censorship, I feel the same about web hosting. The American government should provide their citizens with a small space of hosting to share their thoughts.

I do hope that web 3 brings a DNS service that can be bought once and owned forever that nobody can tear even from your cold dead hands. I'm not holding my breath though.

unstoppabledomains.com?

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#177

Post by feldrim »

nottorp wrote: post #171
EvanAnderson wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't rightly say that I am able to navigate the maze of standards and acronyms associated with smart cards, but the OpenSC tools on Linux have worked for me with a couple different smart cards (Nitrokey HSM and Taglio PIVKey). There are quirks. The Taglio PIVKey can't load certificates using OpenSC, but I've always generated the certificates on the device anyway.

Just because there is smart card software for Linux it doesn't mean it will work with $SOME_GOVERNMENT's interfaces. Ofc in this case feldrim above pointed us to the mac/linux/etc downloads so the estonian government has actually heard there are other platforms besides Windows.

Exactly. They have also a Github organization for the e-ID software repos. https://github.com/open-eid

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#178

Post by EvanAnderson »

nottorp wrote: post #171
EvanAnderson wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't rightly say that I am able to navigate the maze of standards and acronyms associated with smart cards, but the OpenSC tools on Linux have worked for me with a couple different smart cards (Nitrokey HSM and Taglio PIVKey). There are quirks. The Taglio PIVKey can't load certificates using OpenSC, but I've always generated the certificates on the device anyway.

Just because there is smart card software for Linux it doesn't mean it will work with $SOME_GOVERNMENT's interfaces. Ofc in this case feldrim above pointed us to the mac/linux/etc downloads so the estonian government has actually heard there are other platforms besides Windows.

Presumably you'll be using it with a browser. I'm sorry that I didn't clarify that assumption in my first response.

I don't know about Estonia in particular but I'm guessing "$SOME_GOVERNMENT's interfaces" for most places is going to be HTTPS.

So, with that in mind, I've used a Nitrokey HSM and a Taglio PIVKey with Firefox on Linux using the OpenSC tools PKCS 11 module. I would suspect any smart card supported by OpenSC will work fine in Firefox.

From my reading, OpenSC is being distributed by the government of Estonia, so I suspect using it in a browser that supports PKCS 11 modules compatible with OpenSC on a Linux PC would work fine.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#179

Post by lolsal »

qybaz wrote: post #149
lolsal wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The American government should provide their citizens with a small space of hosting to share their thoughts. ... why? What are you basing this on legally/morally other than your own want?

You could ask yourself the same question about all the public infrastructure that exists. I mean why even have roads, legally or morally??

Roads serve the public interest and have been legislated into existence at the federal level[1]. Your turn.

[1] - https://history.house.gov/Records-and-Research/Listing/lfp_0...

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#180

Post by ghoward »

moffkalast wrote: post #82
qybaz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this day and age of censorship, I feel the same about web hosting. The American government should provide their citizens with a small space of hosting to share their thoughts.

I do hope that web 3 brings a DNS service that can be bought once and owned forever that nobody can tear even from your cold dead hands. I'm not holding my breath though.

I tried to design one, using a blockchain. [1]

It had all sorts of nice properties, including some resilience against Sybil attacks.

The problem was that, even with the ability to "forget" unneeded blocks, the storage requirement was simply out of reach for the regular person. [2]

And because it's out of reach of the regular person, it will inevitably centralize around companies that do it for people. And we're back to where we started.

So that's why I gave up on the idea.

[1]: https://gavinhoward.com/2020/07/decentralizing-the-internet-...

[2]: https://gavinhoward.com/2021/03/setting-aside-an-idea-decent...

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