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There's never been a better time to build websites

simeongriggs.dev

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Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#171

Post by ricardobeat »

> at some point we all accepted that if every time we need to fix a typo, it's okay to wait ~10 minutes to completely destroy and rebuild the website again as static files

No, a lot of developers never accepted it. It’s insane.

I have the impression that people who started in the field in the past half decade have a kind of twisted view of what is “normal” in web development. We really walked backwards in many senses in the past ten years, despite all the underlying evolution in the tech stack.

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#172

Post by auggierose »

0x0nyandesu wrote: post #114
auggierose wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, there is no objective wrong/right here, as only the future can tell. My subjective experience tells me, it will be that way. There is no need to context-switch. Just accept Javascript as part of TypeScript, because it really is. The argument is clear: TypeScript drastically reduces the amount of errors you will be making when coding, and the amount of time you need to think about stuff that is really trivi…

I'm just explaining to you how it plays out when a business is deciding whether or not to use TS at all. Mistakes and errors are checked for by linters and unit tests automatically in the background so that's not a benefit anyone cares about. The liability of having to find coders that want to work on your TS project decreases potential candidates and makes hiring more difficult. Large organizations can deal with it…

These are concerns that will arise in some organisations, for sure. Personally, I don't have a need to work together with people who cannot be bothered to learn TypeScript. A nice type system is something you really want, and which improves code quality. No need not also to use linters and unit tests. These things do not oppose each other, they work together nicely.

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#174

Post by swilliamsio »

root_axis wrote: post #138
hooby wrote: post #92

It's definitely a great time to build websites, but saying they _NEVER_ have been easier to make... I'm not 100% sure about that. Yes, tailwind might make css a lot easier, and github copilot might make coding a lot faster... but is this really easier than in the early 90ies, when you could just type into notepad and make a website that didn't require any CSS or images or JS or even more than just the most basic html…

> is this really easier than in the early 90ies, when you could just type into notepad and make a website that didn't require any CSS or images or JS or even more than just the most basic html tags? Nothing is stopping someone from doing that today, but that's no longer the only option, thus it seems accurate that it is easier today than ever before.

In a way, its more difficult today because there are so many options for web development that it's paralysing to even find out where to start. Still, can't go wrong starting with the most basic option.

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#175

Post by dmitriid »

moritz wrote: post #163
AJ007 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have been horrified if I saw what websites would look like in 2010+ when I first started using the web. The amount of unnecessary garbage and JS added to sites goes well beyond the adtech part. Half or more of sites using frameworks probably should never have used them. A good contrast is Reddit vs hn. Reddit’s current site is basically unusable and sluggish on modern hardware that can you could train ML mode…

Just look at all the overhead of the article‘s website… When I first clicked the link the "website" crashed, so instead of the hot take, all I could read is that "addEventListener is not a function". That tells you all about the current state of affairs (Yes I get that webdevs' personal sites are their playground)

That website also loads 184 KB of Javascript to display a 13 KB static document

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#176

Post by albertshin »

notjustanymike wrote: post #153
hooby wrote: post #92

It's definitely a great time to build websites, but saying they _NEVER_ have been easier to make... I'm not 100% sure about that. Yes, tailwind might make css a lot easier, and github copilot might make coding a lot faster... but is this really easier than in the early 90ies, when you could just type into notepad and make a website that didn't require any CSS or images or JS or even more than just the most basic html…

> Isn't Hacker News itself a really great example of a website that successfully uses only very basic html with very, very little styling and fancy extra features? Hacker News is an aesthetic that would be unacceptable to the majority of businesses in the world. The login page alone would cripple sales on any e-commerce site.

why do you think that's the case? is it because people will feel 'sketched out' by the bareness and leave?

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#177

Post by spiderice »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #164
0x0nyandesu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way as the author but I work with php. Recently it's all been TDD, statically typed, and JavaScript gets web packed into one or two files so instead of juggling 15 script tags I only have one or two and a style tag for css. With CI this all happens in the background on every commit. What you pay for when you hire a dev like me with 17 years of experience in the field is the ability to know which libra…

> a dev like me with 17 years of experience in the field That's not the flex I think you think it is ;) I've been coding for over 40 years now, professionally for over 25. The attitude you have is one I very much associate with younger devs with limited experience.

Pretty sure they aren’t flexing and it’s just you who is treating this like a competition.

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#178

Post by thomasahle »

_fat_santa wrote: post #141
hooby wrote: post #92

It's definitely a great time to build websites, but saying they _NEVER_ have been easier to make... I'm not 100% sure about that. Yes, tailwind might make css a lot easier, and github copilot might make coding a lot faster... but is this really easier than in the early 90ies, when you could just type into notepad and make a website that didn't require any CSS or images or JS or even more than just the most basic html…

> Yes, tailwind might make css a lot easier, and github copilot might make coding a lot faster... but is this really easier than in the early 90ies, when you could just type into notepad and make a website that didn't require any CSS or images or JS or even more than just the most basic html tags? The thing is you can still do all of this. But we have since built tools and frameworks to let you still do this, while g…

> The thing is you can still do all of this. But we have since built tools and frameworks to let you still do this, while giving you superpowers. I think Svelte is the best example of this. You can create a dead simple site with it and have the result you are talking about

I don't know. I just tried to use Netlify to upload a simple static Html/Javascript page I made. Now I'm trying to figure out CORS errors. Pretty sure that didn't use to be a thing. For better and worse.

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#179

Post by oblio »

ajlburke wrote: post #93
hooby wrote: post #92

It's definitely a great time to build websites, but saying they _NEVER_ have been easier to make... I'm not 100% sure about that. Yes, tailwind might make css a lot easier, and github copilot might make coding a lot faster... but is this really easier than in the early 90ies, when you could just type into notepad and make a website that didn't require any CSS or images or JS or even more than just the most basic html…

Hacker News still uses tables - for layout ! But it always loads super fast, and it just works. We figured out how to display text on a web page decades ago. It's a shame more people aren't just doing it the direct way anymore. (Applications are a different matter obviously)

And if you try it on mobile, it's mostly crap.

Let's not treat HTML tables as being some super special ability.

If HN were implemented exactly the same but with flexbox or grid for layout, it would be objectively better with no drawbacks I can think of.

Re: There's never been a better time to build websites

#180

Post by rambambram »

samhw wrote: post #132
rambambram wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your sentiment, but RSS and the likes are not 'the same old weapon but better'. It was never 'weaponized' in the first place. It never really came to fruition for the masses. To me, RSS is like two sticks and a string, and it needs some people who can see that they can make a bow and arrow out of it (to stay in the realm of 'weapons'). I don't like talking about tech and business in a sense of 'weapons',…

Interesting point! What would you say the full realisation of RSS would look like? Also, the weapons metaphor was mostly just responding in the frame of the original language about 'pushing back on big tech', 'shattered by big tech', etc. And I do agree with that framing: I think there is a tussle over the direction of the internet – tussle, battle, tug of war, whatever you want to call it – and I'm not sure it helps…

RSS is pub/sub, right? Doesn't social media like Facebook, LinkedIn or Twitter - where you post stuff and other people post stuff - resemble that? Replace 'your' account, profile or page with your own website.

With the right website software it's easy to have an RSS feed nowadays, so the only thing that's missing is website software that also works like an RSS reader. In the most basic sense you only have to read XML with your program.

So now there's your own feed and other people's feed, mixed up in a nice and honest timeline (however you program that). To me this sounds a lot like the first principles behind social media, but without the obscure algorithms to fvck your timeline and without the intruding ads (I have nothing against ads per se).

P.S. Sorry for ranting about the weapons metaphor. I triggered on it and felt the need to tell what I think about language.

Edit: I forgot to say that RSS feeds have been there all the time for a lot of websites based on Wordpress. That has big value, because it means there's no need for technical adoption. These are all websites with feeds up and running right now. I've been hating on Wordpress for other reasons, but this was a good move for the open web from them.

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