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The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

mcc.gse.harvard.edu

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Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#171

Post by phone8675309 »

vorpalhex wrote: post #102
raverbashing wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why do people think someone just going offline will magically start talking to people (where? with whom?) It's like telling an obese person to go exercise. It is meaningless advice. "Oh but can they figure it out right" Well, if they could maybe they wouldn't be so lonely. And even more in boomer style "just take your printed CV to McDonalds to get a job" pulling people offline might be just cutting the only soci…

If you spend all your time just mulling about online, or watching Netflix, or playing a game, then it's not surprising that you are lonely. You are engaging in solo activities that other people can't really join. It is not anymore surprising that you are overweight if you don't exercise, and especially if you aren't cooking at home ever. Cut out any drugs, go to bed at a reasonable hour, exercise, get a hobby, eat de…

The rest of your comment is on point and I think it’s good advice, but I wanted to respond to this:

> If you spend all your time […] watching Netflix, or playing a game, then it's not surprising that you are lonely. You are engaging in solo activities that other people can't really join.

The relevant qualifier here is "all your time", and I agree, all your time is bad, but these activities can be plenty social if they’re engaged in for a reasonable amount of time and with an eye toward being social.

Netflix and playing games to be were vital to me keeping a social link with friend when the pandemic started. What worked for me was to do these activities in a group with friends, friends of friends, and family of friends in a group. For example, we treated NetFlix like a book club treats a book store - a source of material to discuss. We picked out movies and series and would discuss them like a book club discussed movies. Hearing the perspective of others and their understanding of the shows/movies was very interesting and it allowed expanding my social circle with people that either had similar interests or were articulate, civil, and respectful about our differences.

Same for gaming - we would run social gaming nights for people that would break off into smaller groups based on gaming preferences. Did that over Discord and it worked great to break the ice and keep socializing.

The key was to use these things as a backdrop to bring people together and drive engagement and let their desire to be social drive relationships. This takes active effort as opposed to binging a show alone or just queuing in another public lobby in a game.

Another key was limiting time. We alternated between games and movie/series discussion every other week, and that gave everyone (especially participants with a busy work schedule or kids) time to set aside a couple of hours to watch/discuss the shows/movies or game.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#172

Post by rkk3 »

dogleash wrote: post #158
boh wrote: post #145

Loneliness isn't a problem. It's a necessary unpleasant state that promotes social activity akin to sleep pressure that forces you to sleep. The problem is that people are addicted to social simulacra (via social media) rather than actual social activity and so only accomplish temporary relief from the feeling of loneliness while retaining the state of loneliness (like binge drinking coffee instead of actually sleepi…

>Loneliness isn't a problem. This is a weird bone to pick. It's similar to saying "obesity isn't a problem, overeating is." Like, yeah, sure, you can frame it that way if you want. But what utility have you added? So that you can build up to the conclusion that lonely people ought to go socialize properly? That's pretty tautological advice there mate.

I think they just want to rant about the evils of social media.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#173

Post by therealdrag0 »

mandmandam wrote: post #37
JKCalhoun wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I can think: turn off the internet. Internet in the morning. Have your coffee, catch up on the news, your social. Then put the internet down for the rest of the day. Go out, ride a bike with a friend, go hike with a friend, go to a coffee shop, library....

As apt as those suggestions may be for this crowd, they are neither practical or even polite for a huge proportion of the country.

Can you elaborate?

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#174

Post by atlantic »

dominotw wrote: post #163
dionidium wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When was having a partner a precondition for buying a home? When you make an offer on a house you're bidding against two-earner households. For a lot of us in tech the salience of this fact is diminished by the industry's high salaries, but for most folks this is a really big deal.

> When you make an offer on a house you're bidding against two-earner households. what does that matter aslong as your bank has approved the mortgage. I don't see why seller would care. are you saying that ppl are bidding for mortgages that high that bank needs both of their incomes? wow.

When was the last time you asked for a mortgage? This is fairly standard nowadays, and has little to do with the size of your income. Banks prefer a mortgage in multiple names because it reduces their risk. If you're over 40, in my country it is all but impossible to get a mortgage on your own, regardless of income.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#175

Post by the-dude »

gruez wrote: post #161
the-dude wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up to the 1990s it was possible to buy a home on a single income in NL.

Source? At least in the US mortgage payments (adjusted for interest rates and inflation) have been trending down since the 90s. https://awealthofcommonsense.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/...

No sources, purely anecdotal :

Our parents were single earners and home owners

I have peers who bought houses in the late 90s on a single income

You can use Dutch bank's mortage calculators to see you can't buy a shed on a single income

I read on a Dutch news site this year that even for double earners, home ownership is not feasible in some cases

Banks won't give out mortages for say € 700 / month, forcing these individuals to rent on the private market at € 1000+ a month.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#176

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

vorpalhex wrote: post #102
raverbashing wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why do people think someone just going offline will magically start talking to people (where? with whom?) It's like telling an obese person to go exercise. It is meaningless advice. "Oh but can they figure it out right" Well, if they could maybe they wouldn't be so lonely. And even more in boomer style "just take your printed CV to McDonalds to get a job" pulling people offline might be just cutting the only soci…

If you spend all your time just mulling about online, or watching Netflix, or playing a game, then it's not surprising that you are lonely. You are engaging in solo activities that other people can't really join. It is not anymore surprising that you are overweight if you don't exercise, and especially if you aren't cooking at home ever. Cut out any drugs, go to bed at a reasonable hour, exercise, get a hobby, eat de…

> but if you try a few different organized social events (board game meetups, hiking group, whatever) you will probably start talking to a few people.

In my experience, actually no. I took up rock climbing about a decade ago, which most people would say is a fairly social activity. I rarely talk to anyone and certainly wouldn't describe anyone I've met at the gym as a friend. You have failed to consider that maybe the reason people are entertaining themselves with solo activities at home is that they are predisposed towards not being very social even when among other people with similar interests.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#177

Post by tonyedgecombe »

dominotw wrote: post #163
dionidium wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When was having a partner a precondition for buying a home? When you make an offer on a house you're bidding against two-earner households. For a lot of us in tech the salience of this fact is diminished by the industry's high salaries, but for most folks this is a really big deal.

> When you make an offer on a house you're bidding against two-earner households. what does that matter aslong as your bank has approved the mortgage. I don't see why seller would care. are you saying that ppl are bidding for mortgages that high that bank needs both of their incomes? wow.

>are you saying that ppl are bidding for mortgages that high that bank needs both of their incomes? wow.

I don't know about the US but that has been the case in the UK for a long time now, especially for family sized houses.

We went from married women not being able to work to not being able to not work. I'm not sure it was an improvement.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#178

Post by frontman1988 »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #46
JKCalhoun wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> buying things I definitely see this.

I currently struggle to buy anything that would have a positive effect on my happiness. I got a motorcycle two years ago, and while I do pretty few miles, it provided quite some happiness (going on Saturday rides with a friend, general added feeling of "freedom" because of having a way to escape the city and also do short trips I usually would fret about which public transport to take or if it makes sense to use cars…

Buy experiences if you can. You won't regret a good vacation or time spent on a hobby you enjoy.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#179

Post by ljm »

anotherman554 wrote: post #112
ljm wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix in the form of a committed relationship (using the example of people not having partners or not thinking about children). There's been an expectation for a long time that your self-worth as a person is connected to being with someone else, and therefore your path to increase self-wor…

"A partner and a baby won't suddenly make you less lonely or more happy, more likely you'll just have two unhappy people who have to work even harder to make a living, and a child that requires therapy." There's nothing wrong with being single, but as a statistical matter, I'm going to go out on a limb and say there are many people, even flawed people who haven't found themselves, for whom a partner and a baby will m…

I'm likely projecting a lot of my own life experience because I'm afraid of what might come out if I got involved with someone. Because I've had a history of not so great mental health and I basically have a hard trusting myself that I could be mature. So for me, I have to deal with my own shit first, but maybe as another commenter suggested, perfect is the enemy of good.

I feel like if someone goes into this with the expectation that a romantic relationship, or a family and kids, will solve their problems, then they might find out that they're wrong. Like, they're hedging all of their bets on those things and when you look at, say, the incel community, then you can see it's almost an all-or-nothing proposition because so much is riding on sexual or romantic validation at the expense of almost everything else.

And there are the people who have children to try and rescue a marriage, and then they find out it doesn't work like that. Sunk-cost fallacy, maybe you're not happy with someone and you're also not happy alone, but there is someone else out there who connect with you in the way you need.

If I were to rephrase my original post, I'd say that you should listen to your needs but you shouldn't dismiss that some of those needs, maybe, are fulfilled by you, and not someone else. So make sure that you keep yourself happy and don't put the entirety of that responsibility on another person.

Personally, my priority has been to make close friends and to do my best to keep them, while not being afraid of losing them over time.

Or to put it all another way, I'm the only constant in my life and everything and everyone else is a variable.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#180

Post by gonehome »

dionidium wrote: post #132
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was having a partner a precondition for buying a home? Furthermore, what’s the point of finding a partner when the cost of a permanent place together might exceed both your incomes put together, much less a place big and safe enough to raise a family.

> When was having a partner a precondition for buying a home? When you make an offer on a house you're bidding against two-earner households. For a lot of us in tech the salience of this fact is diminished by the industry's high salaries, but for most folks this is a really big deal.

This is only an issue because of constrained supply driving prices up.

If there was more supply, prices would stabilize somewhere lower. Given enough supply that point would be somewhere one income could support.

It's the constrained supply paired with high demand that drives prices up and requires multiple high incomes to compete (especially in places where this has been taken to the extremes because of NIMBYism and entrenched anti-build regulation/incentives).

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