Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods • Hacker News Board

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#171

Post by HNTA_1 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

nluken wrote: post #149

HNTA_1 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just looks like many older, low density suburbs (single family homes with some duplexes and ADUs sprinkled in) all across the US (especially older suburbs in the South). >It is dense It's absolutely not dense, probably less dense than newer suburbs with smaller lots. >walkable, and extremely beautiful. I'll give you that, it definitely looks beautiful.

I'd certainly call JP dense- it's got more than twice the population density of Houston, and it's slightly more dense than LA.

>it's got more than twice the population density of Houston

You're comparing a neighborhood of Boston to one of the largest cities in the US.

A more apt comparison would be the West University Place suburb of Houston that has roughly the same population density and similar size as JP. It's an older Houston suburb.

A "dense" suburban area would be something Jamaica in Queens, NYC. That has something like 6 times the density of JP.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#172

Post by sjg007 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

_fat_santa wrote: post #5

As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…

The State govt could take back development authority from local governments. Otherwise the only hope is that the railroads eminent domain some land and building giant housing complexes with a train station attached.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#173

Post by xxpor » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

SmellTheGlove wrote: post #131

ihaveajob wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I don't get is why many SFH owners don't see the benefit of upzoning their lot: Overnight, their house is much more valuable because if they choose to, they can sell to a developer who can make MORE money by building more homes. And if they choose to keep their house as is, nobody is going to force them. In the end, it boils down to cars, though. Many people see the free parking space in front of their hous…

I can tell you that when we were moving from SF to Seattle this past year, we were getting _crushed_ on any house that was sitting on an upzoned lot. Seattle's done a decent job of upzoning parts of neighborhoods around transit corridors, and we were looking at houses on those lots because I believe in the upside as you do. Well, so do others, and they have _cash_ to buy it - we did not! We're now in a SFH in a mostl…

The way to solve the parking problem is to price street parking, not to require new buildings to build parking while the existing houses get off scott free. It's the exact same supply and demand argument: limited supply so how do you reduce demand to the supply that exists? Increase prices.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#174

Post by itake » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

wanderingmoose wrote: post #165

_fat_santa wrote: post #5

As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…

My understanding is you are already allowed to build an ADU (additional dwelling unit) due to state laws. What I've seen in my city (LA adjacent) is the city can find really creative ways of making adding an ADU very expensive. On my block the same contractor built 2 different ~500 sq ft units on two different lots. They both were a garage tear down replaced by a 1 bedroom unit above a garage. The first unit was done…

1/ who actually wants to live in a ADU?

2/ adding 1 more unit to a plot is hardly going to make dent in the crisis.

We need to look at Asia to see how they offer affordable house: giant high density housing complexes with ground floor grocery stores and shopping malls for convenient access.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#175

Post by ghaff » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

SmellTheGlove wrote: post #131

ihaveajob wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I don't get is why many SFH owners don't see the benefit of upzoning their lot: Overnight, their house is much more valuable because if they choose to, they can sell to a developer who can make MORE money by building more homes. And if they choose to keep their house as is, nobody is going to force them. In the end, it boils down to cars, though. Many people see the free parking space in front of their hous…

I can tell you that when we were moving from SF to Seattle this past year, we were getting _crushed_ on any house that was sitting on an upzoned lot. Seattle's done a decent job of upzoning parts of neighborhoods around transit corridors, and we were looking at houses on those lots because I believe in the upside as you do. Well, so do others, and they have _cash_ to buy it - we did not! We're now in a SFH in a mostl…

People complain about parking requirements but, in most US cities (and indeed in a great deal of the world) most households have cars. If I lived in Seattle, even if I didn't need one day to day for work/errands/etc., I'd certainly own one for going out to the mountains and so forth on the weekends.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#176

Post by yt-sdb » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

_fat_santa wrote: post #5

As soon as you look at the zoning of LA, the housing problem there becomes clear as day, even for someone who doesn't visit very often. I don't know what you would call this system but LA's problem is that the folks that have the power to fix housing have zero interest in doing because it would hurt their self interest. Housing is only a "problem" if you haven't bought a house yet, once you purchase a house, all the…

Put differently, "affordable housing" and "housing as investment" are at odds. People don't acknowledge this tension enough, I suspect because many people want to switch to the housing-as-investment team.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#177

Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

subsubzero wrote: post #130

What is the end solution to this housing crisis? The solutions will all hurt existing homeowners or multi-homeowners and are not likely to be implemented. The duplex in a single family lot is not going to move the needle on this crisis much, as building 2 houses on a existing lot will require a teardown of the original structure, then a buildup of the new duplex, all very costly. It will run at least $500K+ and I don…

> #2. Repeal CA prop. 13, all housing should be taxed at current market value. (exclusions for older retirees and the disabled)

Why the exclusions? Is there a reason to give extra help for the disabled to own homes (and, implicitly, not help disabled renters a similar amount)?

Older retirees could sell off a third of their house's value and cover property taxes for something like 20 years.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#178

Post by beerandt » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #140

klyrs wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse than that. Because LA is so spread out, merely living in apartment buildings doesn't solve the problem: the apartment-dwellers still need cars to live in LA. When you need 1-3 parking spots for every apartment, the economic efficiency of apartment buildings drops precipitously. With rose-colored glasses, I can see a path forward; building free-standing parking garages that will eventually be demolishe…

When you need 1-3 parking spots for every apartment Part of the problem is parking is heavily subsidized and the real costs not borne by drivers. Free public street-side parking in many urban and semi-urban zones. Parking minimums codified into building codes. Allowances for giant asphalt fields in suburban zones. For a start, in downtown areas (both city and town), remove the parking requirements from building codes…

Developers are typically required to include on street parking in their developments before the right-of-way is deeded over to the public.

There's rarely any public subsidies for parking. That's largely a myth. It's paid for in the price of the development by the developer (and is usual a government or zoning requirement).

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#179

Post by distances » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

politician wrote: post #98

klyrs wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse than that. Because LA is so spread out, merely living in apartment buildings doesn't solve the problem: the apartment-dwellers still need cars to live in LA. When you need 1-3 parking spots for every apartment, the economic efficiency of apartment buildings drops precipitously. With rose-colored glasses, I can see a path forward; building free-standing parking garages that will eventually be demolishe…

Dream: Build light rail and cluster high density mixed-use housing and commercial around the stops. Reality: LA runs out of water as climate change intensifies in the Rockies.

Rail should have enough stops for continuous high-density housing, I strongly feel that is what makes a city. Trams for connecting routes and subways for the main transit through the city.

Re: Facing housing crisis, L.A. voters back duplexes in single-family neighborhoods

#180

Post by londons_explore » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

codekansas wrote: post #97

londons_explore wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like there is a solution that everyone would be happy with. It is to allow many new homes to be built, but to compensate existing homeowners for the fact their property will go down in value due to the influx of new homes. For example, the law could say "Property taxes on all properties built before 2021 will be reduced to zero, while all properties built after 2021 will have to pay property tax at 5% of the p…

Isn't this effectively what Prop 13 did in 1978? If anything it has greatly reduced the incentive to upzone, because homeowners in highly desirable areas don't pay taxes commensurate to the increasing desirability of the area they live in, while having the additional negative effect of burdening renters and newcomers with higher property taxes

But you have to combine it with "and we're going to remove all zoning restrictions and allow people to build any types of housing, however tall or dense the market will support, anywhere".

They only did one half...