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The melancholy decline of the semicolon

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Re: The melancholy decline of the semicolon

#171

Post by seoaeu »

Renevith wrote: post #130
seoaeu wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of that article feels like too much of a gotcha. There is a difference between "Alice died of a gunshot wound" and "Bob fatally shot Alice". The fact that neither one is passive voice according to the author's definition doesn't mean that people are wrong for being upset if Bob is left out of the headline. It really seems like missing the point to counter complaints that Bob isn't suitably blamed in a headline…

But it also seems like missing the point for people to criticize that headline for a grammatical error (falsely!) when they really just want Bob to be named... which is exactly the point of that article, right?

They weren't criticizing the headline for a grammatical error (after all, passive voice isn't grammatically wrong). Rather they were using incorrect grammatical terminology to express their actual complaint: that the emphasis wasn't on Bob for committing murder!

Re: The melancholy decline of the semicolon

#172

Post by paulcole »

mdp2021 wrote: post #164
paulcole wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure if you’re agreeing with me or not? I’ll double down on my original point. If, in 2021, you’re 100% sure you absolutely positively need to be using a semicolon in your writing, you need to reevaluate your position.

Why should 2021 be different than any other year. I cannot see a reason to avoid using the semicolon. It is part of proper expression - it's useful, available and innocent.

Because language evolves. Today essentially nobody uses a semicolon in conversational and casual writing.

For the average person, using a semicolon is an affectation like wearing a fedora. Some people look good doing it but most don’t.

Re: The melancholy decline of the semicolon

#173

Post by heresie-dabord »

tacon wrote: post #167
heresie-dabord wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I'm writing to intimate you.." This is a documented Indian English usage: " https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/intimate " (see the verb section). Indian English has retained some strong markers from the British colonial period. There's no clear guide for how prestige and emulation will affect usage, but "to intimate" in either verbal form is a literary archaism in North American English.

>"to intimate" in either verbal form is a literary archaism in North American English While the second (intransitive) version from that wiktionary page is Indian, the first use is most certainly not an archaism in North American English. In fact, it was listed as a normal definition in the first dictionary that Google returned with a definition.[0] The pronunciation does shift with which definition we intend, which n…

> the first use is most certainly not an archaism in North American English

I understand your point and applaud your literacy. However, it's not a verb in common usage, and if our friend is using the verb to intimate in North American business English in any sense, I would advise him that the term is an archaism.

We can discuss at further leisure whether any given literary usage has at least one foot in the crypt of liberal education. ^_^

OED shows that the Indian English usage that we are discussing definitely comes from prior British English acceptations.

> which nicely keeps "intimate details" from sounding too much like "mating". :-)

OED also offers "one who intimates" to be an "intimater". (o;

Re: The melancholy decline of the semicolon

#174

Post by tomcam »

mac-chaffee wrote: post #128

I use them a lot to control the tone of what I write. Since periods can indicate a serious or angry tone[1], I often need some other way to indicate a separation between two complete sentences. For example: "It looks like you forgot to do X; that's needed to do Y." Using a period could be perceived as anger, but using a comma would make that sentence a comma splice. [1] https://youtu.be/fS4X1JfX6_Q?t=3m3s

Former professional journalist and tech writer here. Disagree. At least since Hemingway brief sentences using periods instead of complicated sentences separated by semicolons has been considered not particularly angry. Short sentences also reduce cognitive load on the reader.

Re: The melancholy decline of the semicolon

#175

Post by delecti »

jmnicolas wrote: post #157

Fun fact: the semicolon won't decline soon in France (and a few other countries I think): it's what we use instead of commas for CSV files! However I never use it when writing anything, I'm not even sure what's its usage.

I think Germany does that as well. It was very confusing to inherit code that "accepted CSVs", but didn't accept files where the values were comma-separated.

Re: The melancholy decline of the semicolon

#176

Post by vernie »

tomcam wrote: post #174
mac-chaffee wrote: post #128

I use them a lot to control the tone of what I write. Since periods can indicate a serious or angry tone[1], I often need some other way to indicate a separation between two complete sentences. For example: "It looks like you forgot to do X; that's needed to do Y." Using a period could be perceived as anger, but using a comma would make that sentence a comma splice. [1] https://youtu.be/fS4X1JfX6_Q?t=3m3s

Former professional journalist and tech writer here. Disagree. At least since Hemingway brief sentences using periods instead of complicated sentences separated by semicolons has been considered not particularly angry. Short sentences also reduce cognitive load on the reader.

Younger generations interpret it differently.

Re: The melancholy decline of the semicolon

#178

Post by vidarh »

EMM_386 wrote: post #127
comeonseriously wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automated tools get in my way of thinking. I turn off intellisense, auto-formatters, etc... I'll run auto tools during check-in, but not during coding sessions.

> I turn off intellisense Unless you are doing this for performance reasons, this one I'll never understand. I'd much rather type "x.someP" and hit tab then type in "x.somePropertyThatHasARidiculousNameIAlwaysForget" after having to consult the documentation yet again to get the name.

If you have properties with ridiculous names, that's a bigger problem.

Autocomplete in code seems to mostly be papering over design smells that should be fixed.

Re: The melancholy decline of the semicolon

#179

Post by vidarh »

csee wrote: post #65
boulos wrote: post #2

I'm surprised they didn't mention the controversial Vonnegut advice to never use semicolons (e.g., [1]). [1] https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/vonnegut...

It isn't clear whether his advice here is just humor. This article goes on to explain that he uses semicolons in his own work, even in places where he didn't need to.

It might be part humourous, part the type of advice that is good for those that don't know when to break it.

It's easy to over-use semicolons, and you often see people who have just discovered them use them all over the place for no good reason.

Re: The melancholy decline of the semicolon

#180

Post by DonHopkins »

pixl97 wrote: post #147
mac-chaffee wrote: post #128

I use them a lot to control the tone of what I write. Since periods can indicate a serious or angry tone[1], I often need some other way to indicate a separation between two complete sentences. For example: "It looks like you forgot to do X; that's needed to do Y." Using a period could be perceived as anger, but using a comma would make that sentence a comma splice. [1] https://youtu.be/fS4X1JfX6_Q?t=3m3s

Heh, I think my daughters generation will just replace them with emojis.

That web page that makes combinations of emojis should also be able to combine them with punctuation, so you can make a frowning period, or a goofy semicolon, etc.
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