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Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

businessinsider.com

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Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#171

Post by [deleted] »

MikusR wrote: post #140
pm90 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook presents an existential threat to the business of most traditional news media and they have a platform that actively promotes misinformation. The Press is doing their job: finding out what goes on inside Facebook and reporting on it. As someone not really involved either way, the responses of Facebook to legitimate questions has been entirely unsatisfactory and justifies the negative coverage they’ve receive…

Facebook runs American tv and print media?

[deleted]

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#172

Post by Der_Einzige »

mkl95 wrote: post #22

This is an entirely subjective take, but in the last few years FB seem to have evolved from one the coolest places for an engineer to being at the bottom of FAANG. I wonder if a significant amount of those people are looking for positions at Google/Amazon or they are taking their expertise somewhere else.

Oh delusional amazonians thinking they can successfully prevent those in the know for lobbying for their removal from "FAANG".

Amazon is by far the lowest of the FAANG. Horrific WLB, worse pay than all others listed (esp the vesting schedule), toxic culture, terrible benefits (lol bananas). Don't delude yourself, Facebook is a great place to work and actually deserves to stay in the acronym

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#173

Post by PragmaticPulp »

Gentil wrote: post #93

I don't have much data points to share. But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now. It has been a common trend that when someone I know posts a job position in FB, nobody replies to it. At least not publicly (publicly means replying to tweet, replying to slack message in a well knit/known group of people). Even if they are replying personally and privately, that in it…

> But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now.

This might be more indicative of your bubble than anything.

Facebook isn’t having a hard time hiring, despite whatever the headlines are trying to imply. There will always be a steady stream of applicants for high paying FAANG jobs.

Being able to choose exactly which ultra-high-paying tech job you take or being able to walk away from one of those highly paid jobs is a massive privilege that not everybody shares.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#174

Post by btown »

throwawaysea wrote: post #141
btown wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine many FB employees also envisioned themselves working their way to levels of seniority where they could nudge policy and practices towards the better (however they might define that). After all, one might have said, there’s no other place where an individual’s career in tech can have greater impact on so many people’s lives. Now, seeing how even senior people on dedicated integrity teams had little ability t…

What sort of ship steering do you think these employees wanted? More moderation and censorship? Or less? Or just different? Or is it more around reducing engagement based goals that drive addiction to social media? Or is it around targeting children?

I suppose part of the problem is that even the employees likely don't know what sort of ship-steering they want, and hoped to gradually get enough context to eventually be able to see an optimal path forward. But unless conversations are happening constantly, that day will always be years in the future. And Facebook's internal framing that "those conversations should always play second fiddle to engagement" has effectively quashed any hopes of productive context-aware consensus.

The question on everyone's mind, of course, is: did leadership intentionally prevent these conversations and from-research-to-practice pipelines from occurring, or was their ineffectiveness simply an unintended side effect of the laser focus on engagement? Based on the anecdotes shared with media of how much of the balance was driven by public-relations considerations, one imagines that the perception skews towards the former. And that's not a good place to be from a retention perspective.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#175

Post by waltbosz »

erehweb wrote: post #127
waltbosz wrote: post #58

One of the recent thought experiments I've been pondering: "What if there was a blacklist that you would join by taking/continuing employment at facebook?" The idea being that companies would agree to a pact in which they would blacklist anyone who works for facebook. What would be the consequences? Some sub-questions: 1. Would a blacklist be legal? Do employment laws prohibit hiring decisions based on one's prior em…

What incentive would any individual company have to join such a blacklist? Re 1, California says you can't refuse to hire someone because of criminal history ( https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/labor/discrimination/ban-the-bo... ), so refusing to hire b/c they worked for FB sounds like it would be doubtful.

I didn't really imagine any sort of incentive to join the pact. The motivation to join would be something akin to a protest against facebook's product. The goal would be to make it more difficult for facebook's product to exist.

I did consider laws that prohibit asking about criminal history. I don't think those specific laws would apply, as they are designed to help the previously incarcerated re-enter society through employment.

That said, I could see a court challenge to the blacklist with those laws being cited during arguments.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#176

Post by nowherebeen »

sershe wrote: post #153
Gentil wrote: post #93

I don't have much data points to share. But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now. It has been a common trend that when someone I know posts a job position in FB, nobody replies to it. At least not publicly (publicly means replying to tweet, replying to slack message in a well knit/known group of people). Even if they are replying personally and privately, that in it…

Anecdotally, just last week I've seen someone I know on senior (IC) level actually amplify their transition to Facebook on LinkedIn ("so happy to have worked in X, so happy to join Y, blah blah"), and another former coworker messaged me about their team in FB that they joined in the past year. Also I get much more Amazon/Google/random startup recruiting than FB, so they don't seem desperate. I had a couple friends wh…

> amplify their transition to Facebook on LinkedIn

That’s just humble bragging on LinkedIn. It’s so common on that platform to humble brag everything that I wouldn’t read too much into that one.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#177

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

jakear wrote: post #132
new_guy wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dogfooding the product you're working on isn't that unusual even if it is FB. It dramatically improves quality when you're 'forced' to use the same product you're developing.

In general, yes absolutely. It becomes more questionable when that product is on the backend of hundreds of thousands of engineer-hours dedicated to optimizing engagement. Bit like saying "sorry bud, we don't want your chemical engineering talent in our meth shop unless you are a meth addict, surely you understand self-hosting enables us to make a superior product"

Maybe you just shouldn't work in meth shops at all.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#178

Post by [deleted] »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #173
Gentil wrote: post #93

I don't have much data points to share. But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now. It has been a common trend that when someone I know posts a job position in FB, nobody replies to it. At least not publicly (publicly means replying to tweet, replying to slack message in a well knit/known group of people). Even if they are replying personally and privately, that in it…

> But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now. This might be more indicative of your bubble than anything. Facebook isn’t having a hard time hiring, despite whatever the headlines are trying to imply. There will always be a steady stream of applicants for high paying FAANG jobs. Being able to choose exactly which ultra-high-paying tech job you take or being able to wal…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#179

Post by pmlnr »

tjs8rj wrote: post #142
Gentil wrote: post #93

I don't have much data points to share. But I've been seeing responses to people working FB have been horrible since for a while now. It has been a common trend that when someone I know posts a job position in FB, nobody replies to it. At least not publicly (publicly means replying to tweet, replying to slack message in a well knit/known group of people). Even if they are replying personally and privately, that in it…

Twitter is just as dangerous as Facebook as far as I can tell. So much outrage that’s spilled into riots and bloodshed has been fomented on there in broad daylight with little repercussion. Do you judge people who work at Twitter too?

Twitter is not The Internet for a massive population of the globe; facebook is. If you doubt this, keep it in mind that "internet.org" redirects to FB.

Re: Facebook employees are now more willing to leave, tech recruiters say

#180

Post by ghaff »

chillacy wrote: post #151
thawSeh6s2p wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Loads of people become nurses and teachers because they want to help people, even though they don't get paid much I know it's not the primary point of the post, but define "much". An RN makes around 80k on average, they're also hourly and can generally pick up overtime whenever they want. Nurse anesthetists make double that at minimum, practitioners are north of 120k. It may not be as much as a FAANG position but I…

FAANG senior engineers get in around 350-400k and with recent stock appreciation some are hitting 400-600 depending on tenure and company performance. Source: levels.fyi

Which is an exceptional level relative to just about everyone except execs at larger public companies. It's by no means remotely normal.
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