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The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

theintercept.com

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Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#171

Post by austincheney »

nostromo wrote: post #8

We need a Supreme Court ruling or law that says if the government doesn’t have a warrant to collect your data, they also can’t buy it from third parties. We also need privacy protections so these companies wouldn’t exist in the first place.

Why? I understand the subject is unpleasant but I don't see anything that remotely qualifies as legal over reach.

Users must sign a consent statement to a terms of services agreement. That is a voluntary action where users erode their own privacy protections and surrender their contributions. Anything that happens later is completely incidental and solely between the data owner (which is not the user) and the third party.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#172

Post by JasonFruit »

nostromo wrote: post #8

We need a Supreme Court ruling or law that says if the government doesn’t have a warrant to collect your data, they also can’t buy it from third parties. We also need privacy protections so these companies wouldn’t exist in the first place.

Not a Supreme Court ruling: if there's no law outlawing it, there's no basis for them to rule against it. Do you really want five unelected, unaccountable lawyers deciding this matter?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#173

Post by nitrogen »

mattnewton wrote: post #108
artificialLimbs wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I only pay my bills on time does my credit score go up in the US? Asking because I don't know, but if that is the case, not sure why you can call it 'hoop jumping'. I don't care for the credit companies, they're total scum. But I'm not sure how to do anything better.

Afaict, your credit score will likely be lower if you haven't had a credit card open for a long time, run your balances too close to the limit (available credit) on those cards, or don't use them at all. My understanding is that your bills, depending on their type, may not even bother reporting to the credit agencies, or only report when they believe you have failed to pay; reliable ones seem to be big loans like mor…

Average age of accounts is a pretty big factor in credit scores. Every bank will probably have its own proprietary rules for deciding when to offer credit, but the credit reporting agencies who generate a number use fairly well known criteria. Amount of credit, number of accounts, payment history, percentage of credit used, age of accounts, diversity of types of accounts.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#174

Post by nitrogen »

slongfield wrote: post #116
artificialLimbs wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I only pay my bills on time does my credit score go up in the US? Asking because I don't know, but if that is the case, not sure why you can call it 'hoop jumping'. I don't care for the credit companies, they're total scum. But I'm not sure how to do anything better.

If they're credit bills, yes. If they're just phone, power, rent, etc, not unless you've specifically set them up to go to the credit reporting companies.

Some corporate landlords report all rental accounts, some only report if you default.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#175

Post by drunkpotato »

whiddershins wrote: post #142
kelnos wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we need to understand the purpose of the data collection and what bad things might happen because of it. If Treasury is using this data to catch people who violate economic sanctions, ok. If the IRS is using this data to catch people who cheat on their taxes, ok. I don't love either of those things, but they are using the data only to do things that have been defined as their job to do for a long time now. Th…

Look at the prosecution of Aaron Schwartz, where the prosecutor plainly indicated Aaron’s political views were motivation for being so zealous.

I agree that's bad, but what does it have to do with the current conversation? It seems like a non sequitur.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#176

Post by mensetmanusman »

“ Critics of the software say it essentially allows the state to buy its way past the Fourth Amendment, which protects Americans from unreasonable searches.”

Interesting. Clearly data analysis can find all the tax dodgers, but is that an unreasonable search?

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#177

Post by 1cvmask »

Privacy invasion and surveillance is like invading countries a bipartisan issue. They always moan when one side uses government excesses against the "other" side but still vote for enhanced executive power and overreach all the time.

The national security and surveillance state is as bipartisan as putting economic sanctions on poor Latin American countries, arming proxies, funding NGO fronts and bombing countries.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#178

Post by Zak »

smallerfish wrote: post #65
Zak wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We all take it for granted that the NSA could pinpoint our locations pretty easily, right? In the same way we take it for granted that a SWAT team could kill any of us pretty easily. They have (and probably should have) the ability , but the authority to use it should be very limited and subject to stringent oversight.

No doubt. But, say that the NSA were given the purvue over enforcing sanctions (because they are the national security agency). Should they be able to monitor who is visiting the country with the sanctions? Sanctions are kind of like the tax agency situation - if you're going to wield them as a national security tool, then you want to be able to enforce them, otherwise they're relatively meaningless. And enforcing th…

I don't want the NSA to perform domestic civilian law enforcement functions any more than I want the army to, for similar reasons.

The type of oversight applied to military and foreign intelligence action is fundamentally political. Whether and how to impose sanctions against, spy on, or invade another country are questions for congress and the president in the US and rarely involve the courts.

The type of oversight applied to law enforcement is fundamentally legal. Courts apply existing law to the set of facts in a given case. Congress and the president do not get involved directly and any attempt by political officials to influence the outcome is scandalous, if not criminal.

So should the NSA hack Iran's immigration database to see who's been going there? Perhaps. Should anything discovered that way be admissible in a criminal trial? Almost certainly not. Should the NSA tip off the FBI about domestic crimes? Mostly no, I think, but perhaps in a very limited fashion when the crimes involve national security or foreign policy. Gathering evidence that can be used in a criminal trial would still be the responsibility of the FBI.

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#179

Post by nostromo »

JasonFruit wrote: post #172
nostromo wrote: post #8

We need a Supreme Court ruling or law that says if the government doesn’t have a warrant to collect your data, they also can’t buy it from third parties. We also need privacy protections so these companies wouldn’t exist in the first place.

Not a Supreme Court ruling: if there's no law outlawing it, there's no basis for them to rule against it. Do you really want five unelected, unaccountable lawyers deciding this matter?

Here you go:

"Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Re: The U.S. Treasury is buying private app data to target and investigate people

#180

Post by [deleted] »

nostromo wrote: post #179
JasonFruit wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a Supreme Court ruling: if there's no law outlawing it, there's no basis for them to rule against it. Do you really want five unelected, unaccountable lawyers deciding this matter?

Here you go: "Amendment IV: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

[deleted]
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