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Telegram Ad Platform

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Re: Telegram Ad Platform

#171

Post by skinkestek »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #118
nsotelo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix is an open protocol and anyone's welcome to build a front-end, inspired by Telegram, that your mother would be happy using. Perhaps you meant the Element client?

Matrix is not a protocol, it's a product. Its openness is more like a public API to a product developed by one organization. Disclosure: I work with real open protocols.

Have you told this to the German Army and the French Police?

Because they seem to like it and, based on my experience with the military being able to run it independently is a major consideration for them even for smaller systems.

Re: Telegram Ad Platform

#172

Post by rlpb »

divs1210 wrote: post #77
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #4

I hope this works for telegram! They were going to need to launch ads at some point and this transparent plan to get started seems like it considered the user base. It’s become my favorite messaging app and I enjoy the pace of innovation. I get it’s not end to end encrypted but that’s not what I am asking for with telegram - just a decent messaging app that makes it easy to remain anonymous (not sharing phone number)…

> I get it’s not end to end encrypted Even E2E encryption is supported via the Secret Chat feature! Telegram is pretty good.

Except that if you enable Secret Chat, a bunch of useful features are no longer available. For example, there's no Live Location possible if you're in a Secret Chat.

Re: Telegram Ad Platform

#173

Post by MayeulC »

0xy wrote: post #145
nsotelo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix is an open protocol and anyone's welcome to build a front-end, inspired by Telegram, that your mother would be happy using. Perhaps you meant the Element client?

I'd wager you cannot build a Telegram-tier frontend using Matrix technology. Element is evidence of that. Clearly there's an axis with security on one side and convenience on the other. Tilting fully to either side results in a terrible experience. For me, Telegram strikes the perfect balance. Secure chats have fantastic privacy, while the UX isn't totally garbage. The trade-off is that chats are non-E2EE by default.…

> Signal's has the axis tilted all the way to the "security" end, so that the product is unusable if you aren't a technical expert already.

Wow, I really disagree with this statement.

> Could your mother figure out how to encrypt an email message using GnuPG? Absolutely not a chance. [...] Signal is GnuPG.

My parents are not technical people, yet they can use Signal. My siblings as well. I think the UX is approximately on par with WhatsApp (when I was using it).

They have done a great job when it comes to UX. Ultimately I would like to push them towards Matrix, but the UX is not here yet for most clients. Fluffychat comes close to it, unfortunately I'm experiencing issues logging in with my account (timeouts), so I can't recommend it yet.

Re: Telegram Ad Platform

#174

Post by lxgr »

ai_ia wrote: post #151
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #4

I hope this works for telegram! They were going to need to launch ads at some point and this transparent plan to get started seems like it considered the user base. It’s become my favorite messaging app and I enjoy the pace of innovation. I get it’s not end to end encrypted but that’s not what I am asking for with telegram - just a decent messaging app that makes it easy to remain anonymous (not sharing phone number)…

I agree. Making a decent messaging app with privacy first, they need to make money somehow. I don't want them to go out of business. Though I hope, the ads are not right in your face like youtube does.

> privacy first

This is an unsubstantiated marketing claim, nothing else. It's sad to see it get repeated here, by and for a technical audience that really should know better.

Re: Telegram Ad Platform

#175

Post by lxgr »

whyoh wrote: post #110
kylehotchkiss wrote: post #4

I hope this works for telegram! They were going to need to launch ads at some point and this transparent plan to get started seems like it considered the user base. It’s become my favorite messaging app and I enjoy the pace of innovation. I get it’s not end to end encrypted but that’s not what I am asking for with telegram - just a decent messaging app that makes it easy to remain anonymous (not sharing phone number)…

>not domiciled in the west Its legal domicile is in the UK.

Aren't they the ones "jurisdiction shopping"/"domicile hopping" in a ridiculous game of cat and mouse with courts and authorities?

I much prefer the model of e.g. Signal: Just don't store any data of your users that is none of your business to begin with.

Re: Telegram Ad Platform

#176

Post by rmadriz »

aydwi wrote: post #150
superasn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes telegram is so much better than WA from a customer's point of view. The best thing I like about it is that it's an instant setup on every phone and doesn't require the Google backup integration which can take an hour to restore. Also the fact I can run it on multiple devices simultaneously is also kind of a big deal. Their API is also pretty amazing tbh. I wish all my friends were on tg instead of wa and i would…

Not all about Telegram is golden however. At some point last year, amidst the skyrocketing popularity of the app and WhatsApp coming under heat for various reasons, someone at Telegram thought of a fantastic (read: user-hostile) way to "increase engagement" - Show a persistent panel on the home screen with the name of every contact on your phone who uses Telegram, in the hopes that you would click one of them and eng…

Interesting, I've never seen that panel.

Is it possible that they pushed that updated only to certain regions ?

Re: Telegram Ad Platform

#177

Post by cik »

ComodoHacker wrote: post #91
cik wrote: post #82

How about instead, you offer me the ability to buy into your platform? Offer me the ability to use the platform, and pay a monthly fee, as opposed to seeing ads.

Durov hears you: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29146473

Thus, I salute Durov.

Re: Telegram Ad Platform

#178

Post by whyoh »

lpcvoid wrote: post #161
whyoh wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can we stop comparing the lack of default-on e2ee in Telegram to "no encryption"? I don't think we should. In the context of messaging at least, encryption should mean E2E encryption. Bragging about client-to-server encryption is pointless nowadays, when 99% of the internet is already encrypted this way.

That is quite misleading to a vast amount of people without tech background. I find it dishonest, even more so because Telegram actually does offer e2ee chats - and 1:1 voice/video chats are already e2ee, for what it's worth.

>That is quite misleading to a vast amount of people without tech background.

Not as misleading and potentially harmful as saying "Telegram is encrypted" as a blanket statement, because: 1. as I said, the client-to-server encryption is not noteworthy (almost everything has that) and it shouldn't be enough for privacy-conscious people. 2. even though Telegram does offer some e2e encryption too, its availability is quite limited and not representative of the typical Telegram usage.

Sure, I was being too dismissive there. But I don't like how Telegram gets brought up as a "private messenger", in the same context as fully e2e-encrypted messengers like Signal or even Whatsapp.

For all intents and purposes, Telegram is more similar to apps like Discord or Slack, seeing how most of the comms can be read by anyone who has access to the server. And Telegram can only be used with a phone number, so in terms of anonymity it's even worse than those.

Re: Telegram Ad Platform

#179

Post by lxgr »

the_gipsy wrote: post #149
amelius wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not end to end encrypted but that’s not what I am asking for with telegram Why not? Why allow any third party to collect data on you and store it for an unlimited time?

It has some convenience tradeoffs. E.g. I can read the same chat on phone and desktop without hiccups.

WhatsApp does that too now, even on the web.

Signal has a desktop client as well (no web one, unfortunately) – I also haven't seen any hiccups there.

Yes, this is 10 or 100 times more complicated to get right when using end-to-end encryption, but it's clearly doable, and Telegram has finally been proven wrong empirically about there being a dilemma of security vs. usability in messaging.

Yes, they still lead the field in usability, but the encrypted competition is past the hard cryptographic hurdles, allowing them to focus on the front end.

Re: Telegram Ad Platform

#180

Post by lxgr »

dotancohen wrote: post #101
superasn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes telegram is so much better than WA from a customer's point of view. The best thing I like about it is that it's an instant setup on every phone and doesn't require the Google backup integration which can take an hour to restore. Also the fact I can run it on multiple devices simultaneously is also kind of a big deal. Their API is also pretty amazing tbh. I wish all my friends were on tg instead of wa and i would…

> I wish all my friends were on tg Just send them all a message that you prefer to be contacted on Telegram now. That works surprisingly well, so many people are on the fence waiting for somebody else to make the first move.

Hopefully at least some of them will understand the technical details about Telegram's security models and decline.
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