Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple • Hacker News Board

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#171

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #168

yunohn wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“She said Apple had begun trying to reassign her after she complained” This is called retaliation, and is illegal. It’s not happenstance that she got re-orged after complaining about underlying issues.

It's only retaliation if the employee is engaging in an exercise of their legally-protected rights. If someone is fired after complaining about sexual harassment in the workplace, that's retaliation because you have a legal right to a workplace free of such harassment. If someone is reassigned after complaining about their employer's ESG policies, you're going to have to explain to me what the nature of the legal pro…

Discussing workplace conditions is explicitly an exercise of legally-protected rights.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#172

Post by ms4720 » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #134

sidkshatriya wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be difficult to communicate this way but I think there is a social benefit to making the extra effort for people with disabilities. Often you don’t choose to be disabled. What if you were unlucky to be disabled? Would you like your opportunities to be thoroughly reduced in life? I try to make an effort because I could have been in that employee’s shoes. I am lucky… this is the least I can do.

When I go to a store, I'm not doing it out of charity for the employees. I'm doing it because I want to buy something, in the most efficient and/or pleasant way possible. I'd much rather fund social programs which just outright support people with disabilities (and I'd like such programs to be more robust and empathetic than they are today). Frankly, if you're not going to be able to do your job well in the first pla…

I like the idea of people having a life and not a warehouse to be put into

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#173

Post by NovemberWhiskey » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #171

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only retaliation if the employee is engaging in an exercise of their legally-protected rights. If someone is fired after complaining about sexual harassment in the workplace, that's retaliation because you have a legal right to a workplace free of such harassment. If someone is reassigned after complaining about their employer's ESG policies, you're going to have to explain to me what the nature of the legal pro…

Discussing workplace conditions is explicitly an exercise of legally-protected rights.

Yes, but that is not what we're talking about: "she said Apple had begun trying to reassign her after she complained that the company’s work on the minerals was not, in some cases, leading to meaningful change in some war-torn countries"

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#174

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:43 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #127

ALittleLight wrote: post #51

"she had left Apple after spending several years fighting a decision to reassign her to a role that she said had involved more work for less pay. She said Apple had begun trying to reassign her after she complained that the company’s work on the minerals was not, in some cases, leading to meaningful change in some war-torn countries" I'm impressed that Apple let her spend "several years" fighting a reassignment. I'm…

>She said Apple had begun trying to reassign her after she complained that the company’s work on the minerals was not, in some cases, leading to meaningful change in some war-torn countries" What other geopolitical problems does this person think Apple should be tackling other than resolving tribal conflicts in war torn central Africa? The Taliban? Saudi Arabia’s treatment of women? Haiti’s poverty? Ridiculous.

[deleted]

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#175

Post by eknkc » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

reustle wrote: post #91

Bud wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you missed Apple Watch (which basically invented its category and leads it by a wide margin), and AirPods (also leads its category by a wide margin), and the M1 (instantly made a joke out of Intel) and most of the history of the iPhone. Kinda makes one wonder what else you've missed. Such as, basically everything. "De facto" is not hyphenated, btw, nor did you use it correctly.

* Pebble: Shipped January 2013 * Android Wear OS: Released June 2014 * Pebble Time (color): February 24, 2015 * Apple Watch 1: April 24, 2015 I wouldn't say they "invented" the category.

I used the alternatives. They are not in the same category so I guess Apple invented the category.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#176

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:44 PM UTC

Bahamut wrote: post #142

vimy wrote: post #5

If I was Tim Cook I would immediately shutdown slack and mandate everyone go back to using email. It’s always a tiny minority of activists organizing on slack who are causing a lot of the unrest in tech companies.

Just a note, before Slack a lot of the company was just using iMessage - nobody wants that, 30+ people group chats with messages at all hours of the day was the worst digital communication experience I've ever seen at a company.

Nothing wrong with eating your own dogfood. If iMessage group chats are a bad experience, fix them in the software itself.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#177

Post by nosianu » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #88

ProAm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to hire 2 people (with 2 full time salary and benefits) when 1 will do For one of the most profitable companies in the world, this doesn't seem outrageous (1 extra employee per store, maybe full time, likely not) especially given the fact that Apple doesn't support right-to-repair they will naturally have more foot traffic than most similar businesses.

It's not even so much about the actual cost, as much as the absurd inefficiency and waste of human potential.

When I first visited and then lived in the US for about a decade (coming from Europe) I was surprised about what I perceived as purely a jobs program kind of jobs.

Examples: People at road construction sites holding "Stop" signs, packagers in supermarkets, money collectors in toll booths (even before electronic devices, just using a machine was easily and cheaply possible and frequently and successfully used elsewhere), and a few other jobs that appeared to be unnecessary and purely intended to keep some people busy.

Things like that, and how the defense budget is actually used as a jobs program in large parts, were quite eye opening for me. I came from former East Germany and we always thought US as the most capitalist of all places, but when I first visited for a few months of travel not long after reunification I was very surprised to find some things that we in East Germany even used in jokes comparing East and West, and now I found out that e.g. "employee of the month" (with a special parking lot no less), that we thought was a typical socialism thing, and we even had a joke about that which implied and presumed that something like that could never exist in a country such as the US, was something they actually had. Also, the reverence to uniforms (military and police especially) was very East German.

I think the US is confused about how capitalist they really are. Under the hood they try to solve the same problems as everybody else and come up with very similar solutions, only that they need be be branded differently because you can't do any "socialism" openly.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#178

Post by licebmi__at__ » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

S_A_P wrote: post #140

imgabe wrote: post #8

> Richard Dahan, who is deaf, said he had struggled at his former job at an Apple Store in Maryland for six years because his manager refused to provide a sign-language interpreter for him to communicate with customers, which federal law requires under some circumstances. This just doesn't seem like a reasonable accommodation for a retail job. Your whole job is to communicate with the customers. If you need to hire a…

Is this is someone who is either looking for an angle to litigate with a rich company or has completely unrealistic expectations or both? I feel like if you had a real conversation with this person and got to the root of how they feel they would know their ask is unreasonable. I’m sure they may also feel like they have been dealt a bad hand and want to find a way to be compensated. While this route may make a few law…

Or maybe there could be more nuance to the case. What of he was hired for a different role and then suddenly he had to attend customers? What if the manager just didn’t like him and set him up for failure? Why would we put the wrong in him if the company hired him on the first place?

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#179

Post by fivetimesfifty » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:47 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #159

ekianjo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Providing an iPad to type messages on is a reasonable accommodation Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet to get my point across. It seems like a poor choice of position for that employee.

Doesn't that make communication slower? When I want to buy something, I certainly don't want to start chatting on a tablet Calm down. Breathe. You're buying something at a store, not performing surgery. Five minutes of your time is not necessarily more important than depriving someone of their livelihood. If you were that important, you'd be driving an ambulance.

Except it’s not 5 minutes of just his time. It’s 5 minutes of 55 people every single day.

Re: Tim Cook Faces Surprising Employee Unrest at Apple

#180

Post by Wowfunhappy » Sat, Sep 18, 2021, 2:48 PM UTC

technothrasher wrote: post #163

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I go to a store, I'm not doing it out of charity for the employees. I'm doing it because I want to buy something, in the most efficient and/or pleasant way possible. I'd much rather fund social programs which just outright support people with disabilities (and I'd like such programs to be more robust and empathetic than they are today). Frankly, if you're not going to be able to do your job well in the first pla…

Huh, I'm exactly the opposite. While I do donate money to social programs, any time I have the opportunity to help others I'd much rather it be with my time and efforts than with simply handing over cash for somebody else to deal with people who need assistance. It is much more fulfilling for me to be able to interact with people I'm helping, and who may help me some day. If this is as simple as taking a few more min…

It depends on the extent of the disability, but if your job is to stand in a store and answer verbal questions, and you can't speak, there are probably better things to be doing with your life.

Consider the other perspective here: I'd posit that all else being equal, most people would rather not have to go to work every day, particularly if "work" is a crappy retail job. We force most people to work because their jobs benefit the rest of society, but if someone can't work in a way that helps others, why force them to do it? Because it's not fair to everyone else?

Because hard work is good for the soul? Screw that! Go read books, raise your children, live your life as best you can, and let the rest of us take care of you. If the situation were reversed, I'd expect you to do the same for us.