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I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

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Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#171

Post by ByteJockey »

zebnyc wrote: post #167
CheezeIt wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike other states, California property tax rates don’t increase with market value.

Can you clarify this? Property taxes are what are holding me back from making a bid for a more expensive home. If I buy a home for $1 million, won't I have to pay property taxes based on that price even if it was previously tax assessed at $100k.

Back in the 70s California passed a proposition that limits how much property taxes can increase. [0] As a result of this, if you buy a home and the price goes up afterwards, you won't be paying property taxes on the market price of the house.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#172

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

jdavis703 wrote: post #80
iJohnDoe wrote: post #56

Of course it is. Does no one remember when other states were paying for bus fares to California to get the homeless out of their state? Does no one remember states paying to fly the homeless to Hawaii? The above might sound ridiculous, but what sounds cheaper? Solving California’s massive homeless problem or simply getting the homeless out of the state on the next plane or bus?

I’ve posted detailed numbers here before, but the overwhelming numbers of homeless people in the Bay Area came from the Bay Area. Source: https://hsh.sfgov.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/ExecutiveSu...

There’s some nuance to that. 70% were already in SF when they became homeless, but the vast majority of San Franciscans aren’t from here. Only a third we’re even born in California. So it seems like people move here, become homeless, and stay.

And 30% coming here after becoming homeless isn’t peanuts.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#173

Post by mjevans »

proc0 wrote: post #111
jdavis703 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most areas (pre-pandemic) did not have enough vacancy to put pressure on the housing market. Most of the vacancy was caused by units being renovated/fixed, places waiting for a leaseholder to move in, etc. This is even true of low-income housing and shelters. Occasionally people will gripe about shelter vacancies, without realizing it’s really difficult to maintain 100% housing utilization without denying some people…

Right, but is this in the high demand areas only? Are there no other nearby cities with cheaper rent and also potential jobs? I still blame the authorities for allowing areas with high concentration of homeless people, since that discourages them to find solutions and instead enables them to settle down with other people outside, when perhaps they could try their luck in a less expensive, less dense area.

Cheaper rent is relative.

I invite you to pick any major city, particularly one on the west coast with a population over 500K for their metro area who's name you recognize from any news or professional setting.

Look up the rents in the downtown area. Then look at a traffic map for around rush hour in the morning / evening; the worst part of that period. Take a sample of suburbs an hour, maybe even two hours out to form some rings.

The price of rent goes down a little, but the price in fuel and taxation on a commuter doesn't. MOST of these cities also, if they even have it, will have mass transit optimized to a mega-downtown hub with spokes, for peek commuters only. Even that will still suck about as much as traffic, but costs less.

Pre-pandemic, when I last looked at numbers, Seattle wanted around 3000+ a month for like a single room apartment, maybe a bit less if it was a really crummy place. A rundown suburb an hour or so out cost about half of that for a little more, or for a tiny bit less you could rent a house, including a covered garage.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#174

Post by mjevans »

irrational wrote: post #21
cortesoft wrote: post #18

I think the answer is pretty simple… there are more homeless people because housing is very expensive.

So, if there really is an exodus from California, they will drive up housing prices elsewhere and the homeless problem will spread?

It has been doing this for decades already. North up the coast. Across the wastes of Phoenix which built outward into the desert, and also to Texas which I hear has similar sprawl.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#175

Post by garmaine »

zebnyc wrote: post #167
CheezeIt wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike other states, California property tax rates don’t increase with market value.

Can you clarify this? Property taxes are what are holding me back from making a bid for a more expensive home. If I buy a home for $1 million, won't I have to pay property taxes based on that price even if it was previously tax assessed at $100k.

California caps how much property tax can increase each year unless there is a change in ownership. My mom pays $4k/yr in property tax for the house I grew up in, which is currently worth $2M.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#176

Post by bcrosby95 »

issa wrote: post #134
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... anything you want, but you have to repay what you borrowed? It's true the interest rate is likely better than many other kinds of credit, but it's still a loan.

I'm sort of at a loss for understanding the misunderstanding here. Someone without equity in their home probably cannot get a loan of any sort. Access to capital, as a loan or any other form, is a huge thing. So if your home gives you access to that loan, this is important.

There is no misunderstanding.

Most people don't have a use for a line of credit other than to spend it on things that don't make them any money. Everyone I know that did this used it to say, pay off a bunch of credit card debt, or build a new kitchen that will be worthless by the time they sell their house anyways.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#177

Post by MarkSweep »

Supermancho wrote: post #166
epistasis wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is extremely capable of supporting its current population, and easily 50% more. The only thing stopping this is proper distribution of land and water. We let wealthy people hoard land and water (Prop 13 and our land rights system), rather than allocating them based on market systems or even more fair systems. We have feudalism baked too deeply into our laws.

> California is extremely capable of supporting its current population, and easily 50% more. So is the Moon, with enough effort and cost, but that's not the point.

In way you have a point: from an airplane it is easy to see that the Bay Area and LA are as flat and uniform as the moon. Real cities have variations in building density that reflect the demand for different areas.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#178

Post by garmaine »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #138
Waterluvian wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the most part this is an important point. But there is a minor perk that a greatly appreciating house gives you considerably more equity to act as a large rainy day battery via a home equity line of credit or traditional loans backed by home equity. My home appreciated 20% last two years and while I hate the condition of the housing market, this unlocked a lot of equity years earlier than I expected it to.

Unless you are taking that equity out via home equity loans, it doesn’t really matter until you sell. My home went up 18% this year but…so what? It’s not like we are leaving anytime soon. It’s just a paper gain that could be gone next year.

Salaries go up to match cost of living increases for the area, but your actual cost of living is locked in to a prior rate, so you profit in that way.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#179

Post by arodgers_la »

irrational wrote: post #21
cortesoft wrote: post #18

I think the answer is pretty simple… there are more homeless people because housing is very expensive.

So, if there really is an exodus from California, they will drive up housing prices elsewhere and the homeless problem will spread?

So we have established that housing and homelessness need to be solved at the national level. As such, the influx of people to California to begin with stemmed from within California along with other parts of the country—it has always been a national issue but only visible at the local level.

Re: I believe California is the dumping ground for America's homeless problem

#180

Post by devoutsalsa »

iJohnDoe wrote: post #56

Of course it is. Does no one remember when other states were paying for bus fares to California to get the homeless out of their state? Does no one remember states paying to fly the homeless to Hawaii? The above might sound ridiculous, but what sounds cheaper? Solving California’s massive homeless problem or simply getting the homeless out of the state on the next plane or bus?

Every place does this. I was homeless in San Francisco & applied for assistance. They made sure to let everyone know they'd buy you a one way ticket to pretty much any place you wanted to go.
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