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IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

extremetech.com

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Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#171

Post by dogman144 »

Cypherpunks write code.

This is part of a larger trend of non-state actors with a huge variety of sometimes very pro-social missions (IMF, anti-child exploitation non-profits) advancing their respective missions through leveraging or targeting other non-state actors' platform control (tech companies, adtech infra) of platforms we totally rely on for day-to-day life (browsers, smart phones, OSs).

The connective tissue is the selective analysis, or less generously: magical thinking, of tech's beneficial features for a specific mission while ignoring (or not understanding) what their views for tech-use cause in aggregate.

The only counteraction that seems capable of effective reaction to this trend is forcing that "aggregate view." Developers on GitHub re: showing hash collisions for Apple's CSAM tech have recently lead the way in this space. Tools which passively search the web to generate browser histories which have beneficial credit score impact are another option.

It's time to return to the mindset cypherpunks created, but expand it from their hyper-focus on privacy: write and socialize tools which politely but directly force tech-lite researchers and non-state actors with powerful missions and influence to acknowledge their blindspots (hopefully), or screw up their products (more likely).

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#172

Post by forgingahead »

zionic wrote: post #115
cube00 wrote: post #60

From the IMF blog post[1]: > Even a well-paid expatriate moving to the United States can be caught in the conundrum of not getting a credit card for lack of credit record, and not having a credit record for lack of credit cards. > Fintech resolves the dilemma by tapping various nonfinancial data: the type of browser and hardware used to access the internet, the history of online searches and purchases. I enjoy the fr…

That is a horrifying idea... eliminate fixed rate interest mortgages and the banks can target and de-home people at will.

To be fair, the fixed interest rate mortgage is uniquely American, and is not seen in most other countries of the world. It's a great deal if you can get it! But obviously someone has to backstop the other end of this deal, and in the US it's basically the government.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#173

Post by N1H1L »

nightski wrote: post #135
randomdata wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit cards make money on the transaction side, so they don't need you to pay interest to make money. Simply borrowing against your credit card (i.e. performing transactions) is sufficient to keep them happy, and they 'reward' you with a higher score as a result. At the end of the day, a credit score indicates how profitable you will be as a customer for a lender. Showing profitability for a lender in a past indicat…

I understand how credit cards work. I also get a lot more out of that transaction fee than just a credit score, so I am OK with it. But my point was just that you don't have to pay interest, it wasn't really about any of that.

Yeah this whole credit score conversation going on in this thread is very weird. Has nobody here bought a car or applied for a loan ever?

And how is Bitcoin going to tell whether you default on loans or not?

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#174

Post by stickfigure »

This is daft, but not (just) because of the Orwellian aspect. The problem is that if it was widely implemented, it would immediately stop working.

Pretty much everyone here is familiar with Goodhart's Law; I'm surprised the IMF isn't. Use browsing history for credit scores, watch for the immediate proliferation of apps that generate/clean your browser history.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#175

Post by notabee »

twiclo wrote: post #139
rangerdan wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question vaccine safety or efficacy in a public forum and you'll see soon what censorship means.

Watch this get downvoted to prove his point.

I think some folks still need to understand that contrarianism is not a substitute for a personality or a careful thought process. People disagreeing with you is not a good metric for being right, or special, or oppressed.

If anything, all the conspiracy nonsense being stoked from shadowy organizations can be seen as serving the same purpose as an agent provocateur. "Look, these people will obviously believe anything, no matter how ridiculous or unsupported by empirical data. We'd better constrain all information for their own good." Just like a provocateur breaking windows at a protest is used as an excuse to arrest everyone.

Now that's a conspiracy theory I can get behind.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#176

Post by yorwba »

scohesc wrote: post #130
yorwba wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hey, they got that system in place already in China! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System From your link: "By 2020,[needs update] it was intended to standardize the assessment of citizens' and businesses' economic and social reputation, or 'Social Credit'." It's 2021 now and the "Social" part of "Social Credit" is still science-fiction, let alone somebody's web history affecting their ability to obtai…

> Xu was sued in 2019 for calling tai chi "grandmaster" Chen Xiaowang a fraud, and the Chinese court ordered him to pay Chen approximately US$60,000 in damages and to apologize for seven consecutive days on social media. Additionally, his social credit rating was lowered to the point where he could not rent, own property, stay in certain hotels, travel on high speed rail or buy plane tickets.[16][17] The restrictions…

Okay, I agree that if you lose in court and get ordered to pay a fine, and you refuse to pay that fine and get a bad credit report as a result, you would indirectly be punished in your ability to obtain credit. But the problematic link in the causal chain is what you have to pay the fine for, isn't it? Treating an unpaid fine the same way as any other outstanding debt seems pretty reasonable to me.

Also, I'm under the impression that people imagine something more direct when they talk about web history affecting credit scores, like visiting a site automatically deducting points from a score, or something.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#177

Post by derefr »

jart wrote: post #102
cube00 wrote: post #60

From the IMF blog post[1]: > Even a well-paid expatriate moving to the United States can be caught in the conundrum of not getting a credit card for lack of credit record, and not having a credit record for lack of credit cards. > Fintech resolves the dilemma by tapping various nonfinancial data: the type of browser and hardware used to access the internet, the history of online searches and purchases. I enjoy the fr…

The fact that the IMF thinks your choice of operating system should impact your creditworthiness is something I've been warning people about for months because it shows why we need cosmopolitan software. Since it's nice to have the ability to pick up and move our apps elsewhere should we discover we're using the "wrong" one. Because political winds change, but good engineering endures. https://github.com/jart/cosmopo…

I think the thought there is just that STEM nerds tend to have stable high-paid jobs and thus good credit, and so OSes/browsers that nobody but nerds use / would tolerate using, are signals of having good credit.

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#178

Post by Ekaros »

mig39 wrote: post #165
Ekaros wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in country where we don't have credit score it always seemed massive black box with very strange incentives... Here the loaning is based on income, other loans and possibly registry of past failed payments. I'm not really sure if more than last one is needed, maybe some overall registry of how much money single person has lend and what part is unguaranteed of it...

Sounds like you're describing a credit score :-)

Credit score to my understanding is some magic number that can be effect by things like someone querying it... Which seems quite weird and opaque... But in sense component of negative credit score is a thing. And I don't think it should go any further...

Re: IMF working paper suggests using browsing history in credit score calculations

#180

Post by randomdata »

nightski wrote: post #135
randomdata wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit cards make money on the transaction side, so they don't need you to pay interest to make money. Simply borrowing against your credit card (i.e. performing transactions) is sufficient to keep them happy, and they 'reward' you with a higher score as a result. At the end of the day, a credit score indicates how profitable you will be as a customer for a lender. Showing profitability for a lender in a past indicat…

I understand how credit cards work. I also get a lot more out of that transaction fee than just a credit score, so I am OK with it. But my point was just that you don't have to pay interest, it wasn't really about any of that.

Practically speaking, transaction fees are interest, you just pay it in a roundabout way.
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