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Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

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Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#171

Post by alex_munroe »

wccrawford wrote: post #12
dreyfan wrote: post #7

This is no more exploitative than someone trying to make it big on Youtube, Twitch, or Spotify and gaining zero traction. If the content someone creates on these platforms doesn't capture an audience, the hosting platform doesn't generate any revenue and neither does the creator. It's completely free to produce the content (minus your time) and the platform hosts it for free, even though 99% of it never receives any…

For adults, I agree. But this is squarely aimed at kids and they haven't got the life experience to see these problems coming or deal with them appropriately. If it were aimed at adults, but kids wanted to try, too, like Youtube... I don't have as much problem with that. But the target audience of Roblox ads is kids and always has been. It doesn't seem at all fair to trap kids into this ecosystem, sell them the thing…

> For adults, I agree. But this is squarely aimed at kids and they haven't got the life experience to see these problems coming or deal with them appropriately.

That's what parents are for.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#172

Post by DixieDev »

djrogers wrote: post #30
jnwatson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main complaint is they encourage kids to create games by emphasizing the revenue sharing aspect, without making clear how hard it is to derive any revenue at all from it.

> they encourage kids to create games by emphasizing the revenue sharing aspect I disagree completely here - they encourage kids to create games by giving them an easy platform to create games and letting them play games other kids have created. A kid who sees that other kids their age are able to actually make a video game is far more likely to want to learn to do that themselves.

While I am sure many kids would be swayed without it, the potential to make "serious cash" is one of just three things they highlight about their platform on their creator page: https://www.roblox.com/create

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#173

Post by darknavi »

alex_munroe wrote: post #170
donmcronald wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s probably a long tail where a tiny fraction of devs make more than that. Free labor!

By the same logic, YCombinator is "exploiting our free labor" through Hacker News. People write thoughtful comments, get nothing in return, and YC benefits from free publicity. Same for facebook posts, instagram, reddit, and every business that benefits from community and network effects. Same for every video game that allows mods, custom levels, and so on. The only difference is that Minecraft users make no money at…

> The only difference is that Minecraft users make no money at all for their efforts.

Minecraft dev. here, not strictly true. We have a pretty bustling marketplace full of paid and free content (maps, skins, etc.) but the process to release such content right now is pretty hands-on and not suitable for non-adults.

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#174

Post by robocat »

Raymonf wrote: post #150
elliekelly wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, thank you. One follow-up question: if I don’t cash out my $1,000 USD worth of Robux can I spend them in game at their full $1,000 USD value?

Yes, you can spend it in-game at the full value. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but it's also important to note that not all Robux is equal. There's more information at https://en.help.roblox.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005718246 under section 3.B.

3.B “Minimum of 100,000 earned Robux in your account. In order to protect against money laundering and comply with applicable law, we limit all Cash Outs to "earned" Robux. Robux are considered "earned" if you receive them by receiving payments from a bona fide third party transaction through the Services for (a) virtual items (such as clothing for an avatar) that you created or (b) virtual things in your game or for your game or experience. This means that Robux acquired in other ways (e.g., receiving Robux as part of a membership plan or referral bonus, a purchase of Robux or gift card, or trading/selling virtual goods that you did not create) are not considered "earned". We will determine how much you are eligible to Cash Out by totaling the amount of Robux earned (over the lifetime of the account) and subtracting the amounts previously paid out to you through DevEx;”

Also note that there is a comment in the video that you need to be careful how you spend your Robux for buying development, because if you are not then a cut gets taken, which maybe relates to 3B for the person you are paying?

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#175

Post by [deleted] »

dreyfan wrote: post #7

This is no more exploitative than someone trying to make it big on Youtube, Twitch, or Spotify and gaining zero traction. If the content someone creates on these platforms doesn't capture an audience, the hosting platform doesn't generate any revenue and neither does the creator. It's completely free to produce the content (minus your time) and the platform hosts it for free, even though 99% of it never receives any…

[deleted]

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#176

Post by [deleted] »

duxup wrote: post #13

My son makes some games on Roblox and plays a lot. He has a great time, he's not chasing $, he just wants to have fun. It works great for that. As soon as you try to stand out and chase money, yeah it gets HARD. Just like streaming on YouTube... or just getting noticed online for your blog. But what's the alternative here? That's a question of scale. Just not let kids even have a chance to make money?

[deleted]

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#178

Post by robocat »

stickfigure wrote: post #73
rtkwe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But to withdraw it, they need to have raked in roughly $1,000 worth of Robux. It's even worse than that. They sell robux at one rate and cash them out for developers at a very different rate. That $1,000 worth of Robux becomes $350 when you go to extract it. So they're taking cuts twice, once on the actual sale and again whenever you try to turn it into real money instead of their scrip.

Can you transfer it? If so, seems like it would be hard to prevent secondary markets from forming.

Section 3.F of Terms of Abuse:

“the following will make you ineligible for a Cash Out:” “attempting to exchange Robux for real currency other than through DevEx”

https://en.help.roblox.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005718246

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#179

Post by [deleted] »

BigJono wrote: post #94
rtkwe wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks worse when that $1k becomes $350 because Roblox cashes out Robux at a 65% discount for itself after taking nearly 75% of every transaction.

So, to make $350 you need to sell $4000 worth of mtx? That's ludicrous.

[deleted]

Re: Roblox faces criticism for 'exploiting' young game developers

#180

Post by robocat »

testudovictoria wrote: post #118
rtkwe wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roblox takes their 75% cut out of each sale then if you ever manage to accumulate the 100,000 Robux needed to cash out ($1000 worth for what Roblox sells it for) you only get $350. They're double dipping their cut. You should really watch the video it lays out the case very well. If it's meant to be educational it shouldn't be marketing itself as a way to make money or charging kids to promote their app. It would hav…

To combine the numbers: Roblox takes 75% of each sale. This means the developer needs to make 400,000 in Robux sales before the developer accumulates 100,000 Robux for cash withdrawal. If 100,000 Robux is sold for $1,000, and 100,000 Robux only nets the developer $350, then the double dip gives Roblox a net 91.25% of developer sales. This excludes any applicable taxes or app store fees.

The video mentioned you must also have a premium account at $5/month, so conservatively 7 months is another $35 down.

And presumably you have to pay for the premium account before you withdraw, so you are investing real cash for a chance of a payout?

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