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Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

locusmag.com

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Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#171
post #76
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you at all close to this space? I am. > The example Cory puts on policing My most upvoted comment on this website was discussing this exact scenario. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23655487 Could you perhaps clarify the generalization you're making about me and people like me so I can understand it?

Excellent. One problem in my mind that I don't see discussed enough -- and also not in your other post -- is that there is a large divide between those who use the technology (the cops in this case) and those who supply it, and there is no accountability in any of the two groups when something goes wrong. Like you write in your other post, "the system works (according to an objective function which maximizes arrests.…

I actually think you're being too generous. Most people who work in ML are not ignorant that it has risks and flaws.

Many people are very resistant to the idea that their particular work can have a negative impact or that they should take responsibility for that. See Yan Lecun quitting Twitter (https://syncedreview.com/2020/06/30/yann-lecun-quits-twitter...)

Other people are very aware of the dangers of their work. But, when the money gets big enough, they take their concerns to the bank and their therapist. See Sam Altman's concerns about the dangers of machine intelligence before he invested in OpenAI (https://blog.samaltman.com/machine-intelligence-part-1) Contrast that with his decision to become the CEO, take the company private and license GPT-3 exclusively to Microsoft. (https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/02/17/844721/ai-openai...) He had reasons. He posts here. He might defend himself. But to me it seems like the kind of moral drift I've seen happen when people in silicon valley have to make hard choices about money and power.

There are also applications of ML that are generally safe and can be of benefit to society. See the many medical uses including cancer detection.(https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00847-2) Most of the work being done to expose the risks and biases of ML is being done by researchers who are at least somewhat within the field. In my math and computer science program, two and a half of the 25 students are doing their thesis in safe ML. (I'm giving myself a half because I'm working on logic based ML.) I don't think it's fair to believe that every person working in ML is participating in something negative for society.

Ultimately, I think we need some reasonable regulation and a lot more funding for research into safe ML. Corporations and governments want ML for purposes that can be unethical. Unfortunately they also control a lot of the research grants. So they have a disincentive to fund AI ethics or safe ML over pushing the boundaries of what ML can accomplish.

Finally, I think many engineers would like their work to be positive for society. Unfortunately, with what we know now, a lot of the edge cases we run into are unfixable. When Google Photos started classifying black people as gorillas, Google just removed primates from the search terms. Years later, they hadn't fixed it. (https://www.wired.com/story/when-it-comes-to-gorillas-google...) I'm sure most engineers on the project knew that was a hack. When faced with an unfixable issue like that, the engineer either tries to get the company to stop using ML for that problem, compartmentalizes and ignores the issue, or they quit. Where do you draw the ethical line? It's good to hold people accountable but it's unrealistic to expect that to solve the problem.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#172
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what ML has brought to the forefront -- from self-landing airplanes to self-landing cars I am not aware of any ML in flight controls. Being black box and probabilistic by nature, these things won’t get past industry standards and regulations (at least for a while).

> I am not aware of any ML in flight controls. Being black box and probabilistic by nature, these things won’t get past industry standards and regulations (at least for a while). (Hah, I accidentally wrote "self-landing cars," fixed). But yeah, I guess I was thinking more of drones, I'm not exactly sure what ML (if any) is in the guts of a commercial or military airplane.

> I'm not exactly sure what ML (if any) is in the guts of a commercial or military airplane.

I never get tired of the fact that first jet airliners with fully automated landing systems had been developed and were going through certification for regular use by the time first microcontrollers popped up. Intel 4004 came in 1971, here's Hawker Siddeley Trident landing in a 1968 promo movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flVcxfOnWi0&t=9s

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#173
What baffles me is the number of humans who think they are in the personal possession of some super special sacred form of magical and unexplainable intelligence. "AI is just stats" yes, indeed, but so is human intelligence. In many ways, AI from 2010 was already better than human intelligence.

Three remarks:

- The task many people seem to be benchmarking against is not just a measure of general intelligence, but a measure of how well AI is able to emulate human intelligence. That's not wrong, but I do find it amusing. Emulating any system within another generally requires an order of magnitude higher performance.

- The degree to which human intelligence fails catastrophically in each of our lives, on a continuous basis, is way too quickly forgotten. We have a very selective memory indeed. We have absolutely terrible judgment, are super irrational, and pretty reliably make decisions that are against our own interests, whether it's with regard to tobacco use, avoidance of physical exercise, or refusal of life-saving medications or prophylactics. We avoid spending time learning maths and science because it's not cool, and we openly display pride in our anti-intellectual behaviours and attitudes. We're all incredibly stupid by default.

- AI researchers need to work more closely with neuroanatomists. The main thing preventing AI from behaving like a human is the different macro structure of human NNs vs artificial NNs. Our brains aren't random assortments of randomly connected neurons: there's structure in there that explains our patterns of behaviour, and that is lacking in even the most modern AI. We can't expect AI to be human if we don't give it human structures.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#174
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in favor of changing the terminology from AI and ML to something along the lines of 'prediction model' so that the idea of machines 'thinking' is replaced with them 'predicting'. it's just easier for our mushy meat brains to think that AI and ML means that it'll lead to general AI or as I like to call it 'general purpose decision maker'. it's all about the language!

I propose “heuristic optimization”.

I like this the most, but you can also generate things, which isn’t implied by optimization strongly.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the human brain is just a REALLY large, trained, NN, there's no reason that we won't be able to replicate it given enough computing power. I think one clear sign that the human mind is more than just a big NN is how large neural networks are already. Take GPT-3, which is was trained on 45 terabytes of text and has 175 billion parameters. Contrast that with the human brain, which has around 86 billion neurons and…

A parameter in a neural network is more comparable to a synapse of which the brain has 100 trillion. And yes, we will get there too one day.

That's a good point, but amount of training data these neural networks take doesn't seem compatible to me.

If I read all day everyday from the moment I was born until now, I couldn't have read 45 terabytes of text.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#176
We are paying for the incredible bamboozle that is the phrase "Machine Learning." If we used computerized statistical inference instead and the phrase "machine learning" did not exist the attitude to people from investors to regulators, from customers, vendors, doom sayers and boosters alike would be vastly better taken as whole.

Nearly everyone here knows mostly when seeing AI written or hearing it that it's a total crock. Nearly everyone here knows ML is applied statistics done with a computer but this not common knowledge and it really should be.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#177
I come away from from this article with two thoughts.

1) Regarding the example of qualitative data via drunk students attending eye-licking parties. The author doesn't explain how this is qualitative. To my mind it's a gap in the model. The modelers could have included parameters to account for students behaving impulsively or irrationally, but they didn't.

2) Considering the nebulous nature of terms like consciousness and comprehension and the ensuing challenges of measurement, can it be proven that the structures that can potentially underpin behavior, etc., that would generally be recognized as conscious or comprehending do not exist as an emergent but undetected property of the Internet? Is it reasonable to suppose that if such a structure existed and if it possessed or embodied consciousness or comprehension that it might work toward remaining unknown?

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#178
This kind of talk can be steelmanned, but even that version doesn't have reassuring answers to the likes of

> Okay, you’ve all told us that progress won’t be all that fast. But let’s be more concrete and specific. I’d like to know what’s the least impressive accomplishment that you are very confident cannot be done in the next two years.

(from https://intelligence.org/2017/10/13/fire-alarm/)

Just today I was rather astonished by https://moultano.wordpress.com/2021/07/20/tour-of-the-sacred... -- try digging up something comparable from mid-2019.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#179

> Let’s talk about what machine learning is...it analyzes training data to uncover correlations be­tween different phenomena. The author seems to have missed or excluded reinforcement learning and planning algorithms in this definition. My criticism of AI criticism in general is that no one admits that at the root of it, we do not understand thinking (or "consciousness"). We are merely the "recipient" or enjoyer of t…

I believe we do understand, broadly speaking, thinking and consciousness. There remains a lot more to learn, as in anything in science...

IMO the main difficulty is that humans have terrible self-awareness or self-insight. We want to believe we're special, we want to believe we're intelligent, we want to believe we're different than machines. We're in denial about that.

Our brains aren't any more special than computers, other than that it's really quite formidable that we evolved them by chance in this universe of chemical soup we find ourselves in. At the end of the day, however, a computer is a computer, and "thinking" and "consciousness" simply do emerge from low-level computations given some special structures.

Re: Past Performance is Not Indicative of Future Results (2020)

#180
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to insult or offend anyone. I'm just recounting my observations based on my understanding of the subject - and that is really not to disparage the amazing work that's being done, but rather to highlight the scale of the problem you have to solve when you're talking about creating something similar to human intelligence. It's entirely possible I'm wrong about this, and I would love to be proven…

Thanks for your reply. I suppose a quick way to summarize my criticism is that it reads to me like you've dismissed the strengths of ML on technical grounds, while you imply you don't have any real technical experience in the field. You make a superficial comparison between the compexity of biology and ML, without providing any real insight, just saying one has lots going on and the other is matrix multiplication. If…

You don’t have to be an expert in a field to recognize that the current popular approaches to something aren’t even close to getting there.
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