Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 203 posts

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#171

Post by tpm »

dirtyid wrote: post #143
tpm wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is we have no way to distinguish what is "genuine" in this case. Compounding that problem is the current massive Chinese propaganda offensive, which makes it even harder to believe any positive opinions. Especially when at the same time we can see what is happening in HK, for example.

I've wrote elsewhere in this thread that this alleged "Chinese propaganda offensive" especially on western social media is massively overblown. In terms of data, we have decades of western analysis of polling and sentiments in PRC suggesting people are genuinely supportive of central government, reflected in opinions of millions of Chinese diasphora populations who post on western media and/or interact regularly with…

I did not mention social media, but I know things about Chinese influence in e.g. academia. It's not overblown at all; we are not talking nearly enough about it.

See, I already mentioned polling in totalitarian society does not make sense - it's quite simple really - and you are still using it as an argument. That's not a good way to have a discussion.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#172

Post by pope_meat »

grishka wrote: post #96
dalbasal wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello 2003. I remember when the "great firewall" seemed like a joke, as did digital copyright compliance, online censorship or basically any means of controlling the internet. Information wanted to be free, and neither man nor king could stand in its way. Maybe that is true, and the last 15 years have been an aberration. But... that would mean a reversal of a trend, not a continuation of the current one. To me it see…

The problem is excessive centralization. The internet used to be millions of servers owned by independent people and organizations. That was, for all intents and purposes, uncontrollable. Now much of the internet is comprised of giant platforms that are a whole lot easier to coerce to comply with even most nonsensical regulations.

The cloud brought a storm with it, and it's drowning the decentralized nature of the internet. Convenience is what will hang us, but hey, it was very convenient.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#173

Post by birdyrooster »

birdyrooster wrote: post #79
aerosmile wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it make sense to have strong principles and not be guided by financial incentives alone? Sure. But would it make more sense to have a solid regulatory framework to start with, as opposed to being loosey goosey for a very long time and then course correcting in a way that evaporates billions in value overnight from domestic and foreign investors? Countries and companies have a lot in common. Consider this analogy…

All we can do now is hope the Taiwanese don't ratify their constitution to get rid of their claims to mainland China. If they can manage to stay the course, the US will remain unentangled with Taiwan's fate.

Amend*

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#174

Post by beaunative »

throwaway4good wrote: post #2

"Shares in Tencent plunged 9.0% in Hong Kong on Tuesday amid widespread market jitters over Chinese regulatory crackdowns on high-growth sectors, including online platforms and, most recently, private tutoring. Hong Kong's benchmark Hang Seng Index (.HSI) fell 4.2%." Fascinating how the Chinese authorities seem to be regulating the these companies with complete disregard on how the stock market might react.

Last time I checked, plenty people on HN claiming those enterprises are branch of the government `since they operate in China`, which I still do consider to be one of the most ignorant and arrogant comment on Chinese businesses.

If governments can actually be that successful in dicating and operating businesses, then the communism world would never have failed so miserably, the control the Chinese government has over companies is really no more than that of the United States governments (from federal to local), just look at how the federal governments banned all kinds of business activites, how the `do no evil` company bidding for defense contract. It's a pity many of the readers live in the imaginative world where the US is free of all evils, with China being the opposite.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#175

Post by beaunative »

mc32 wrote: post #16
throwaway4good wrote: post #2

"Shares in Tencent plunged 9.0% in Hong Kong on Tuesday amid widespread market jitters over Chinese regulatory crackdowns on high-growth sectors, including online platforms and, most recently, private tutoring. Hong Kong's benchmark Hang Seng Index (.HSI) fell 4.2%." Fascinating how the Chinese authorities seem to be regulating the these companies with complete disregard on how the stock market might react.

Naively, it looks like the CCP sees the influence and heft US tech exercises on the US population and world at large. The CCP will forgo economic might (in this sector) for social stability and control every time. They do not want these titans to have more power or influence than they have so they rein them in and let them know who holds the straps.

Social stability IS econimic power in the long term. Any anti-trust enforcement of that sort is beneficial for the overall market, even if the largest business in that sector will suffer. Short term economical metrics really don't and shouldn't matter that much to a well functioning economy.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#176

Post by beaunative »

tablespoon wrote: post #73
georgeecollins wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The problem is that the CCP has nothing to replace this cultural vacuum with. I am no expert, but I disagree and I think this is the kind of thinking that has failed the west for the last thirty years. I think the idea started with the fall of the Soviet Union. That culture and ideology was bankrupt. So a lot of western people thought that when there was a free exchange of ideas with China, the Chinese would event…

I think you're broadly correct. With regard to China, a lot of people's understanding is driven in large part by wishful thinking, which is a serious weakness and vulnerability. > Sure lots of people disagree with the party, but that doesn't that they want a western liberal democracy. So lots of people will speak in favor of a benevolent elite and against populism or what they see as western chaos or oppression. When…

The concern I have with China, right now, is that I suspect liberal democracy in China will be in favor of someone like Donald Trump, who will then have the power to turn it into dictatorship and this time 70% of the population will vote in favor of the Chinese Trump. Or likely a civil war would break out.

The ideological difference within China is not anything less then that of America. The gay marriage issue along could leave the country 80% to 20%, with the liberals on the 20% side. Yet in a authoritorian state like China, I don't think I've heard anything amount to hate crimes like that in the US, A lot of them would be scared to come out, but no one would be murdering them just for their identity. I think the issue with electoral democracy is that every issue is public, in constant debate, and people's political identity became so important to some that they are willing to kill.

People, expats especially, who live in affluent areas of China often lack the knowledge necessary to understand the less-developed areas of China. Like how people in California lack understandings of Alabama.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#177

Post by logotype »

dirtyid wrote: post #143
tpm wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is we have no way to distinguish what is "genuine" in this case. Compounding that problem is the current massive Chinese propaganda offensive, which makes it even harder to believe any positive opinions. Especially when at the same time we can see what is happening in HK, for example.

I've wrote elsewhere in this thread that this alleged "Chinese propaganda offensive" especially on western social media is massively overblown. In terms of data, we have decades of western analysis of polling and sentiments in PRC suggesting people are genuinely supportive of central government, reflected in opinions of millions of Chinese diasphora populations who post on western media and/or interact regularly with…

Warning: account associated with CCP

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#178

Post by Kaze404 »

starfallg wrote: post #78
georgeecollins wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The problem is that the CCP has nothing to replace this cultural vacuum with. I am no expert, but I disagree and I think this is the kind of thinking that has failed the west for the last thirty years. I think the idea started with the fall of the Soviet Union. That culture and ideology was bankrupt. So a lot of western people thought that when there was a free exchange of ideas with China, the Chinese would event…

>My experience of people in China-- admittedly a long time ago-- was they are generally very patriotic or nationalistic, like Americans. They appreciate the CCP and what it has accomplished. They have a strong domestic arts industry making movies, books, games. Sure lots of people disagree with the party, but that doesn't that they want a western liberal democracy. Having been on the inside, it's not that they don't…

I don't understand the premise that the Chinese need to be convinced that the system we live in is the better one. Can we not accept that they are happy with the choices they made, and that not everyone needs to live under a repressive capitalist system?

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#179

Post by starfallg »

dirtyid wrote: post #158
starfallg wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Singaporean politics is particularly well regarded within China. In fact, it reflects the same issues as with the CCP and its authoritarian system. The Singapore system is seen as a necessary evil given the geopolitics of the region and the racial makeup of the city-state. The CCP is seen as a necessary evil to propel China into advanced economy status. This is just how things are.

Singaporean political academies trained 50K CCP cadres until recently. Their system is/was highly well regarded and emulated, but within the last decade CCP has evolved/developed beyond the Singaporean methods designed for small fish geopolitics. LKI was the preeminant statesmen that every CCP leader visited/consulted with personally, outside of state-to-state dialogue. I think Trumps America, drama HK in has turned…

The political element is hugely overblown as the training is mostly limited to mid-level cadres and in the areas of Managerial Economics and Public Administration. There's a reason why they are called the "Mayors' Class". It's also a top down policy, not the popular view.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#180

Post by dirtyid »

tpm wrote: post #171
dirtyid wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wrote elsewhere in this thread that this alleged "Chinese propaganda offensive" especially on western social media is massively overblown. In terms of data, we have decades of western analysis of polling and sentiments in PRC suggesting people are genuinely supportive of central government, reflected in opinions of millions of Chinese diasphora populations who post on western media and/or interact regularly with…

I did not mention social media, but I know things about Chinese influence in e.g. academia. It's not overblown at all; we are not talking nearly enough about it. See, I already mentioned polling in totalitarian society does not make sense - it's quite simple really - and you are still using it as an argument. That's not a good way to have a discussion.

>polling in totalitarian society does not make sense

Why? There's tons rigorous analysis by western institutions with decades history polling in PRC [1]. The allegations that you can't get useful polling because communism is facile. There's no basis to it other than projection and feels. It's common among East Europeans who abscribe their experiences on PRCs, which is very different. Unlike Soviet Block countries during cold war, PRC prior to mid 2010s was saturated by western NGOs who were given broad access because it was seen as helpful to modernization. Also the topic covered HK polling, if you think that's biased even pre NSL, then there's no reason to believe pro-HKers either.

[0] >The “Surprise” of Authoritarian Resilience in China https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/02/surprise-authorit...

>I did not mention social media, but I know things about Chinese influence

The original topic was about astroturfing, so assumption was when you talk about massive propaganda ops it would be related.

>academia

Where is the massive propaganda campaign? Thousand Talent particapants being poorly prosecuted by DoJ's China Initiative covered ~80 cases where only %50 had anything to do with espionage/theft. Even then high profile cases had to be dropped because FBI basically admitted they lied and were just targetting / profiling Chinese academics. Of course there's PRC influence in academia, but it's not as substantial as all the engineered headlines suggests.

Post reply on HN