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Building a vision of life without work (2015)

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Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#171
After growing tired of modern software development practices a few years ago, I just quit my job. I had no plan on going back to work (although I did after 18 months), and I had no plan on what I was going to do other than improve my math skills (which I did to some small degree) and learn to touch type (which I did not do).

What I really learned is that my digestion problems and benign heart rhythm issues got a lot better during this period. I also just enjoyed parking my car in various locations within 20-40 minutes of my home and just reading, or studying, or listening to music.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#172
My plan is to at least take the next year off to think things through. I don't have nearly enough money for an early retirement, so this will have to be it for now.

But anyway, an interesting thing happened. I am in talks to buy a small cheap piece of land that needs a lot of work. And suddenly I had all these ideas of what I could do there once I clean it up. Not only gardening again, but hobbies, learning new things etc. Basically all the things I want to do now, of which I just occasionally get to some of them, but am otherwise to drained to really get to it. So it's not about not working, it's not about not doing anything, I think I would die if it was like that. It's about doing something meaningful or at least something I don't feel is 60% BS.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#173
post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

How do you "live amongst the Amish"? Sounds like you're contributing to their community in some ways ie. dam building. Did you buy any land from them or a home? Just renting? I always assumed that they're an insular community. Want to get down there sometime and try the food. PA Dutch food looks so good.

We are lucky enough to live in an area with a strong amish presence. Their food is amazing, going out to eat it is like eating a wonderful home cooked meal. Amish BBQ, while not as flashy as other styes, is also definitely worth a try. Amish burnt butter noodles are sublime and are my overall favorite... that and the fritters and pies.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#175
post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

I know exactly what makes me happy -- playing video games, eating good food, living in a nice climate (CA or Hawaii), and traveling the world. Unfortunately my happiness comes with a price tag.

I think it's important to understand that "what makes you happy" is much more contextual than we realize. If you're sitting outside in the freezing cold, you might think that what makes you happy is "wearing big heavy coats and drinking cocoa". That's true right now because you're fucking cold. But get out of the cold and your happiness goals may change.

Often, happiness is simply "what addresses the imbalances in my life right now?"

Today, you're probably busy working a 9-5 (or longer). You spend much of your time overwhelmed by the complexity of your job, delaying gratification and doing things you don't want to do. You're stuck inside all day and working through the nicest months of the year.

In that context, of course all you want to do is sit outside at a beach, play some leisurely videogames, and eat good meals. But that's because your life right now has a distinct absence of downtime, nature, and leisure.

When you are retired, the entire context is different and thus what makes you happy will shift too. Once you no longer have a job, you'll likely find videogames boring and understimulating. When you start taking a walk every day in the woods, you might not crave moving to Hawaii quite as much. And when you have the time to cook and savor meals every evening, eating out loses some of its lustre.

Whenever the situation of your life changes, expect your happiness goals to shift too.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#176
post #67

I was 2nd employee at a unicorn startup and have been on a work-hiatus for almost a year. Now, I live amongst Amish people in the country. My biggest insight has been a mindset change. Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" This is an experiment I'm performing. A structured lif…

> Previously my underlying approach to life looked like: "I will do X which will enable me to do Y so that I can finally do Z." I now approach my days with "What will make me happy?" Great insight that is worth repeating. One of my biggest problems with FIRE discussions is how much they reinforce the idea that retirement is a prerequisite for achieving happiness. This leads a lot of FIRE-minded people to double down…

> One of my biggest problems with FIRE discussions is how much they reinforce the idea that retirement is a prerequisite for achieving happiness. This leads a lot of FIRE-minded people to double down on jobs they hate that consume too much of their time and energy, only because they think it will better enable them to be happy later.

On the FIRE subreddit, anyway, they're very clear that:

1. It's the FI part that really matters. RE is just one possible choice of what to do with it.

2. It's silly to make yourself miserable until you're FI.

3. FI is not magic. It will not meet your expectations unless you've carefully thought through what it is you want to do with that freedom.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#177
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conclusion came to me is that extreme working and extreme no-working are both bad in the long run. All you need is a work-family-life balance. I am also glad that the author now opens the door for getting married and even having a kid. Work, spouse, kids, the traditional way of life have been explored and chosen by human being for at least thousands of years. The psychological / economic needs for living with a f…

sorry but what? work & family over the past 70-200 years is vastly different from work & family before them (most of human history). the focus of former for most everyone was just to survive; you worked (probably sustenance farming) to survive, you married for resources, you had children to help with work, etc. modern work and family is vastly different because work isn't solely motivated by the need for survival, ma…

Yes. there are changes in technology and economy, but not in basic human needs.

There might be less people work for survival, and more for higher needs, but it does not change the basic structure of human needs (see Maslow's hierarchy of needs).

I don't see how this point out what flaw I may have.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#178
I haven’t had a job in nine months now and between waking up whenever I want to and finally trying the things I’ve always had in my head to make a little money here and there, I don’t know how I would go back to a regular job. Sure on paper I make about half of what I used to make, But damn my stress level is low and days are nice

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#179

I'm 52 and have 2.5MM in an IRA (200k cash) and debt of just a $200k mortgage (and this is weaksauce compared to my peers who all became VPs or C*Os). And the idea of trying to live off an IRA that is currently stocks/bonds/ETFs scares the bejeebers out of me. I think it is more about the personality than the money: do you have the risk-tolerance like this guy to say "fuck it, it will all work out," or are you like m…

A lot of it depends on your yearly spend. My spend is in the range of 20 to 30K. Its been in that range for years. I'm just not very material-goods oriented (my car is 24 years old). I've done some calculations and I would be OK with a 2000->2008 style downturn, though, a 2000->2013 downturn would be more problematic.

Its not the lifestyle for everyone though, I agree. Though, I do think its prudent for younger people to plan _as if_ they might need to retire early, since the market may decide that they are no longer needed or desirable as workers. Perhaps especially so for tech workers, who already face ageism-based discrimination.

Re: Building a vision of life without work (2015)

#180

Society which values work will outcompete the one which does not. You and people around you aren't the only ones on this planet, there are highly motivated people elsewhere who will gladly put in effort to take your place.

> who will gladly put in effort to take your place.

That sounds completely alien to my experience. I go on vacation around 2 months a year. I work only the stipulated hours. And I have a great job, with great conditions, working with amazing people, learning things and having fun.

This kind of mindset and approach to life gives me a peace of mind that allows me to have meaningful discussions, to mediate in disagreements and to not be too invested so I can easily adapt to new circumstances. Working "harder" just creates a tunnel vision, maybe is ok if your job is to sit in a chair and do nothing. But for any job that requires mind or body to be in shape, you need vacations and take it easy to perform at top capacity.

On the other side if it really as you say and everything is about competition, then investing so much in just your job is going to make you lose at the rest of non-work competitions in live. But, I do not think that this is true.

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