Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

zeit.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 301 posts

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#171

Post by Majora320 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #144
camjohnson26 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeedn…

>> supporting conspiracy theories accusing chief justice John Roberts of pedophilia and murder I miss the good old days when such accusations were extreme. Reporters would hesitate to say the word pedophile on air. Airing such an accusation would almost certainly trigger a serious defamation lawsuit. News outlets would instead talk of unspecified personal accusations. Now, thanks to a certain popular letter-based con…

The former.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#172

Post by prteja11 »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #108
tialaramex wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Least bad billionaire" is a weird tag to give Musk. I mean, there are a bunch of people who either inherited a billion dollars or married into it, and, not being psychopaths, they just decided to spend that money doing good and have done with it. That seems pretty easily to be "less bad" than somebody like Bill Gates, Elon Musk, or Warren Buffett who set out to acquire wealth.. I guess if you've got a really out-the…

JK Rowling is a good example. She became a billionaire from writing Harry Potter but didn't stay one for long as she donated most of it

Well, she is widely criticized as being transphobic. So there’s that.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#173

Post by freeopinion »

apocolyps6 wrote: post #168
freeopinion wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The heros that rescued those kids came up with a preposterous and unreasonable plan. We could have ignored them, too. And ignored the drilling crews, and the dudes with miles of hose and giant pumps. We could have said that any rescue would require an unreasonable effort. It sure is easy to slip "we" all over that paragraph. I certainly don't deserve any credit for the decisions that were made and the heroics that sa…

This is conspiracy theory logic, thinking that the armchair theorist and the subject matter expert are on the same level. You keep stressing that the plan was preposterous and unreasonable, as if everyone one over there just did whatever they wanted and nobody was coordinating. This was an unprecedented operation, but by that same logic was the first ever heart transplant "preposterous and unreasonable"? There's a wo…

Yes! Now you're getting it. The first brain surgery was preposterous and audacious. The first pacemaker was crazy (You want to add batteries to my heart?).

Crazy ideas require crazy amounts of careful design, careful planning, careful execution. That's what makes them crazy. Along with the high probability of failure even with the greatest care. How many open heart surgery patients died before the first success? None? That's crazy!

You want to host the summer olympics in Yuma, AZ? That's crazy!

You want to build a giant reusable spaceship on the border of Mexico? That's crazy!

You want to drill a hole through somebody's skull to drain the swelling and relieve the pressure? That's crazy!

You want to cut a hole in somebody's throat so they can breath? That's crazy!

You want to plant 10 trillion trees to change the Earth's atmosphere? You're crazy!

You want to teach every child in the world how to read? Crazy!

Not all of those things are the best of many risky plans.

And quit pretending that somebody shouted over better informed people. I'm sure there were critics of all the plans. Some people might have shouted. Some might have quit in protest. Some pondered quietly. Some people were terrified but did it anyway. They planned and organized the best they could. And despite mistakes, and even spur-of-the-moment adlibs they pulled it off. Crazy!

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#174

Post by rowanG077 »

fab1an wrote: post #45

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

Well not to say that it was not smart what Musk did. The guy did shitpost first and Musk responded. It's not like Musk just out of nowhere started hammering the guy.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#175

Post by rowanG077 »

prteja11 wrote: post #172
shawabawa3 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JK Rowling is a good example. She became a billionaire from writing Harry Potter but didn't stay one for long as she donated most of it

Well, she is widely criticized as being transphobic. So there’s that.

Well you are considered transphobic for disagreeing with the twitter trans community about anything. So I wouldn't put much weight into that.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#176

Post by postmeta »

Planktonne wrote: post #136
FearlessNebula wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't excuse Elon slandering Vernon Unsworth, but didn't Vernon talk shit about Elon's good faith attempt at making a submarine to try to rescue the people?

He didn't 'talk shit' about a 'good faith attempt'. Unsworth - who knew the cave system - said that Musk's idea was impractical and a PR stunt. Both of those claims are valid and came from a reliable source. During a crisis, there is no particular need to be polite to people getting in the way.

https://www.gq.com/story/musk-submarine-where-it-hurts seems kinda rude, or just british /jk!

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#177

Post by postmeta »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #67
fab1an wrote: post #45

The most harrowing thing I have read in a long time. I can't even begin to fathom the immense bravery of these divers - and that of the boys. I didn't really follow the Musk bit of the story, but the fact that he had the audacity to shitpost about any of these guys make me think vastly less of him (and I'm usually in the Musk-respecter camp)

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeedn…

https://twitter.com/QTRResearch/status/1017914936289349635 sounds kinda rude, but not worth a reply

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#178

Post by jimsimmons »

freeopinion wrote: post #173
apocolyps6 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is conspiracy theory logic, thinking that the armchair theorist and the subject matter expert are on the same level. You keep stressing that the plan was preposterous and unreasonable, as if everyone one over there just did whatever they wanted and nobody was coordinating. This was an unprecedented operation, but by that same logic was the first ever heart transplant "preposterous and unreasonable"? There's a wo…

Yes! Now you're getting it. The first brain surgery was preposterous and audacious. The first pacemaker was crazy (You want to add batteries to my heart?). Crazy ideas require crazy amounts of careful design, careful planning, careful execution. That's what makes them crazy. Along with the high probability of failure even with the greatest care. How many open heart surgery patients died before the first success? None…

They are crazy at the start. The ones that do succeed do so by having a plan. Not by trying to be crazy / rebel without a cause. We still don’t know all the variables. Those with experience knew some and ultimately executed on it. They were informed by hands-on experience. Note the governments and the navy SEAL units from multiple countries are getting involved with the operations. Imagine being whomever you are and advocating for your solution. What message are you sending? That everyone should haggle with these operational experts and get an answer for why their ideas wouldn’t work?

Don’t you think the time, attention and energy that these people expend dealing with famous cool guy’s ideas are ultimately resources that are taken away from the core operation.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#179

Post by ergocoder »

FearlessNebula wrote: post #129
camjohnson26 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeedn…

This doesn't excuse Elon slandering Vernon Unsworth, but didn't Vernon talk shit about Elon's good faith attempt at making a submarine to try to rescue the people?

So what?

You can call each other names and fight.

Musk has gone beyond that and accused Vernon of being a pedophile and marrying child bride.

Maybe it was the heat of the moment. But then some days (or weeks) later he followed up with "I'd bet my signed dollar (that Vernon is a pedo)" (or something like that).

Musk intended to destroy Vernon with the pedophile accusation. There is no doubt of that. This is pre-meditated plan to destroy a person with the pedophile accusation.

For some reason, there's no outrage from tech companies though. People are still praising Musk as usual. I'm looking at you all the CEOs like Jack Dorsey and etc.

Re: “One Day Longer and Those 13 Boys Would Be Dead”

#180

Post by geomark »

camjohnson26 wrote: post #72
camjohnson26 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vernon Unsworth. He sued Musk for libel in the United States and lost. Musk not only called him "pedo guy" on Twitter, but implied he had married a child bride, when he hadn't, and later hired a private investigator to dry to dig up dirt on Unsworth, which found nothing. Musk also sent this letter to Buzzfeed where he doubled down. He thought it was off the record, and says some terrible things: https://www.buzzfeedn…

Musk's submarine was a joke. The video of it shows it was clearly too large and too rigid to maneuver through the caves. Musk said they would make a video showing the submarine going from point a to b, but never did. Watch these videos of Unsworth both after the rescue and the trial and compare them to Musk's response. It was absolutely sickening. https://youtu.be/uDP6_4jUmiQ https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-50…

I saw and touched the sub; it was featured at a science expo in Bangkok not long after the rescue. It was a metal tube with some plexiglass plates on it with air valves mounted in them. I'm sure there was some engineering involved, but didn't seem at all impressive.

My son was a big fan of Elon, the "cool rocket guy". But after his comments about Unsworth he asked me "Why did Elon say that stuff about the man who is a hero?" My son is a Thai boy living in Thailand, close the the same age as the boys who were rescued. Sadly I had to walk back the idea that Elon was a good role model.

I thought Unsworth should have sued Elon in Thailand. It wouldn't have meant much since Elon would never travel here again. But in Thailand defamation is a criminal offense that carries jail time. And since Unsworth is a national hero there's little doubt the court would have found in his favor and Elon would have had an outstanding arrest warrant. Again, wouldn't mean much unless Elon forgot about it and ended up traveling to or through a country that would arrest him on behalf of Thailand.

Post reply on HN