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How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

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Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#171

Post by PaulHoule »

jmilloy wrote: post #168
koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

The Netflix catalogue, and the movie rental/streaming ecosystem in general, was completely different when the AI challenge was going on. It was a DVD postal service. Your ratings mattered, and almost any movie you wanted was available. No one was bored scrolling Netflix trying to decide how to kill two hours before bed. They are clearly not using the ratings based automatic recommendations any more. It's not even rel…

The current "Netflix Optimization Problem" is how to spend the minimum amount on content but still keep you subscribing.

The Netflix prize also put Netflix on the map in terms of being a company that solves hard problems. We are still talking about it today and you'd better believe it has inspired talented people to work at Netflix; they could easily blow $1M on recruiting people and have much less to show for it. It's why Netflix is part of "FAANG".

Reed Hastings genius is that he led Netflix through a number of transitions between fundamentally different businesses: he built a strong brand with the DVD-based business without permission from the studios, transferred that brand to streaming when the studios saw it as "free money". By the time the studios understood what it was worth Netflix decided it was cheaper to buy than rent. (just as a consequence of having more customers)

The new frontier is that they use your engagement data not just to "suggest" the next movie but to design movies that will keep you engaged.

It's a little bit scary with these services that are "all you can eat" games for $10 a month because you're giving up "voting with your dollar" but creating a trail of engagement that will be fed back into satisfying your narcissism. Taking screenshots and videos of games seems fun and harmless at first but somebody knows I had a big crush on Nikola and Chiara from Valkyria Chronicles 4.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#173

Post by Consultant32452 »

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

I’d settle for being able to filter out movies that are not available in my language.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#174

Post by jareklupinski »

PaulHoule wrote: post #171
jmilloy wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netflix catalogue, and the movie rental/streaming ecosystem in general, was completely different when the AI challenge was going on. It was a DVD postal service. Your ratings mattered, and almost any movie you wanted was available. No one was bored scrolling Netflix trying to decide how to kill two hours before bed. They are clearly not using the ratings based automatic recommendations any more. It's not even rel…

The current "Netflix Optimization Problem" is how to spend the minimum amount on content but still keep you subscribing. The Netflix prize also put Netflix on the map in terms of being a company that solves hard problems. We are still talking about it today and you'd better believe it has inspired talented people to work at Netflix; they could easily blow $1M on recruiting people and have much less to show for it. It…

> The new frontier is that they use your engagement data not just to "suggest" the next movie but to design movies that will keep you engaged.

Personally, the opposite has been happening in my recommendations. I've been switching over to Netflix less and less as its library thins, and the replacements seem not as compelling... can't even remember the last time I watched a full movie or TV show season on Netflix.

Guess I'm not the target demographic :( but it's not like I personally pay 'the Netflix bill' anyway.

Toddlers seems to enjoy the procedurally generated content though; maybe they're mistaking toddlers randomly bashing their screen for audience engagement?

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#177

Post by sonofaragorn »

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

All these rules determine what it shouldn't recommend. What rules would you use to determine what it should recommend?

Would you agree that these rules will quickly become unwieldy and a pain to maintain? And that these will be personalized to your taste but not to someone else's?

Wouldn't it be great if you didn't have to maintain those rules and if the system were tailored to every user? Congratulations, you've just realized you'd like to use ML/AI.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#178

Post by hateful »

sonofaragorn wrote: post #177
koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

All these rules determine what it shouldn't recommend. What rules would you use to determine what it should recommend? Would you agree that these rules will quickly become unwieldy and a pain to maintain? And that these will be personalized to your taste but not to someone else's? Wouldn't it be great if you didn't have to maintain those rules and if the system were tailored to every user? Congratulations, you've jus…

Based on the previous posts rules, for me it would be: Recommend anything else you have that's not excluded by those rules. And give me a "remove" like Amazon does and I'll be happy.

I don't actually want recommendations, I want a catalog with exclusions.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#179

Post by dfxm12 »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #146
klausjensen wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. I am constantly baffled at the bullshit Netflix suggests me. I just went to the frontpage of my Netflix and...: - "My list" recommends 3 series where I have alread watched the last episode - "Only on Netflix" recommends another two series, I have already wathed. - A section displayed is "Watch together for older kids" - I dont have kids, never watched any kids stuff on my account. - "Documentaries"…

"My list" is not algorithmically generated; it's a list of shows you have chosen to add to it. It would be nice if have you the option to remove a show from it when you finished it but very annoying if it did it automatically behind your back. Although clearly the real problem here is that "my list" isn't a clear enough description to show you manually control it (but I don't have a better suggestion).

Although clearly the real problem here is that "my list" isn't a clear enough description to show you manually control it (but I don't have a better suggestion).

That's the hard part about designing software for anyone - there is no average user & you can't really make assumptions about their understanding of your system. After all, I think the intention of "My list" is clear and fairly obvious, so that makes 3 people with 3 different ideas about the feature.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#180

Post by dylan604 »

jmilloy wrote: post #168
koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

The Netflix catalogue, and the movie rental/streaming ecosystem in general, was completely different when the AI challenge was going on. It was a DVD postal service. Your ratings mattered, and almost any movie you wanted was available. No one was bored scrolling Netflix trying to decide how to kill two hours before bed. They are clearly not using the ratings based automatic recommendations any more. It's not even rel…

>They are clearly not using the ratings based automatic recommendations any more. It's not even relevant given the limited and generally low-quality content available. It's just about keeping enough people paying.

For those of us old enough to remember, it's not much different than going to Blockbuster. All of the new releases were along the walls with lots of copies to support the high demand. That's where everyone started when entering the store. If you found what you wanted, you grabbed a copy and left. In the middle of the store, the shelves were full of stuff you'd never heard of with one, maybe two, copies available. Both of those copies were covered in dust. You'd see people doing the physical version of endlessly scrolling to ultimately settle on "something" just to not be scrolling any more.

Really, the only difference now is at least you don't have drive somewhere to do the scrolling. I'd also say that there's at least the advantage of being able to do it in your PJs, but Blockbuster (any video rental place really) was the first public place that I noticed it became acceptable to not have to get dressed to visit.

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