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Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

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Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#171
post #151
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good reason for why I don't strongly hold on to any of my opinions lol

I know you made the point in jest but you’re right. To be adaptable you need to embrace change and opinion is the hardest to change. I’ve seen people die holding an opinion which has been thoroughly disproven. Embrace change!

Agreed. Some people would rather burn bridges than admit they were wrong

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#172
post #49

I don’t hear much about it these days, but circa 2004 when I was going into computer science I had multiple teachers and a guidance counselor warn me that all the jobs would be going to India and tell me I should pursue something else. This seemed to be very much the prevailing wisdom of the time. I pursued it anyway as it was my passion. I was one of five students in my program that had been a huge multi-campus prog…

My father was very strongly against my decision to get into web development (2012) and he echoed this sentiment heavily. I distinctly remember him yelling at me as a teenager; "you'll be living under a bridge in 5 years if you do this! India has this market!". He eventually kicked me out for not listening, forcing me to to borrow money from a friend to pay tuition in my final semester. Needless to say he was complete…

I'm really sorry for the relationship you have with your father.

I've had similar experiences, but not as drastic as yours -- my father didn't allow me to use my bike for YEARS as a punishment for smashing my bike as a 10 year old (faulty chain, impulsive child).

I guess this I would call the real toxic masculinity.

Unfortunately there's nothing much you can do, except build your life around it, keep your boundaries firm and perhaps psychotherapy.

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#173
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah America seems to have the nice combo of reasonably price places to live and high tech salaries. Since “remote, but US” is common I do t see why you can’t take your $150k and live off a quarter of that somewhere and save most!

It's because some areas where you can get a house for $1,500 per month instead of $4,000 come with caveats like neighbors with guns and hellish weather

Isn't it deadly ironic that the country that has such terrible health care is also the same country where people get shot all the time?

I love it that San Jose is going to require gun owners to carry liability insurance if they want to carry weapons. It's about time they started paying for the health care and rehabilitation and funerals of all the people they shoot, and stopped whining that they're victims of government is oppression, when they're perfectly complacent with everyone paying for licensing and registration and insurance of cars.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/...

>San Jose to Require Gun Owners to Carry Liability Insurance

>San Jose officials have passed the first law in the country that requires gun owners to carry liability insurance and pay a fee to cover taxpayers’ costs associated with gun violence.

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#174

I think CASE - (Computer aided software engineering) was starting to come about that time iirc. Business folk would just drag and drop stuff in these new fangled GUI's and everyone would go home early. Edit: That crab stuffed fillet sounds good

Wasn't CASE just a fancy word for what we now call IDEs? Business people might not do much dragging and dropping there, but developers do it quite a bit.

The promise of CASE was closer to the promise of now Copilot, but hard coded instead of statistical.

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#175
post #49

I don’t hear much about it these days, but circa 2004 when I was going into computer science I had multiple teachers and a guidance counselor warn me that all the jobs would be going to India and tell me I should pursue something else. This seemed to be very much the prevailing wisdom of the time. I pursued it anyway as it was my passion. I was one of five students in my program that had been a huge multi-campus prog…

The lesson is that there is always place for everybody, whole of India included in Computer Science..

Once AI matures to a level where it can write programs, we will have to create newer pastures however.

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#176

My biggest issue with education is the whole "study this, get a job doing that" idea. It's plainly wrong, and it sucks in people who drink the koolaid and think there's an easy route to work. Very little is learned in college that is necessary for general employment. By general I mean just about everything that isn't licensed, like being a doctor. What college does is it throws a bunch of hard but irrelevant subjects…

> Very little is learned in college that is necessary for general employment. College used to have two value propositions: - enabling very smart people to do research and nothing else - identifying / finding reasonably smart people that are needed for important tasks in society, but which might have languished in some village otherwise Finding smart people has become a non-issue, and research has been corrupted by pu…

Can't talk about academia, but why has finding smart people become a 'non-issue'? Without university I almost certainly would've gotten a job in my small rural town rather than moving to London with a lucrative and productive career.

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#177
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father was very strongly against my decision to get into web development (2012) and he echoed this sentiment heavily. I distinctly remember him yelling at me as a teenager; "you'll be living under a bridge in 5 years if you do this! India has this market!". He eventually kicked me out for not listening, forcing me to to borrow money from a friend to pay tuition in my final semester. Needless to say he was complete…

Kudos for sticking to it, I'm not sure I could have done that in your place! I'm always horrified at stories of parents who act this way. "Do it because I say so, I'm infallible as far as you are concerned, if you disobey me I'll hurt you."

> "if you disobey me I'll hurt you."

I think the message is slightly different, and worse. I think the message is

"If you disobey me, you have hurt me, and I will need to retaliate"

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#178
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank your for articulating something I've experienced over the years so clearly. It's one thing I wish recruiters/HR would understand. I have an advanced college degree in a field that has nothing to do with engineering and I've found that omitting it from my resume actually made the recruitment process a whole lot smoother as a candidate. Interviews went from inquisition sessions about why I wasn't doing what my gr…

Out of curiosity, what is your degree in?

History (BA/MA/PhD)

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#179
post #49

I don’t hear much about it these days, but circa 2004 when I was going into computer science I had multiple teachers and a guidance counselor warn me that all the jobs would be going to India and tell me I should pursue something else. This seemed to be very much the prevailing wisdom of the time. I pursued it anyway as it was my passion. I was one of five students in my program that had been a huge multi-campus prog…

To be fair, 2002-2003 would have been a pretty rough time to graduate as a developer. The industry hadn’t yet recovered from the whole dot com thing and there were still a million “converted business major” developers on the market who hadn’t yet got the hint that they should go to law school. The advice you got might not have applied to you on the way in. But it certainly applied to all the students those professors…

My boss loves to play with the idea of outsourcing, but he seems to be aware of the issues to some degree. In our situation, the idea is pretty hilarious - we as developers have to make sure our products don't become unmaintainable, product management doesn't like to think things through when specifying new features, and we already don't get time for refactoring. I think outsourcing (especially when done to save money) requires pretty fantastic product management and my intuition is that it's fundamentally incompatible with a codebase that is growing along with the company.

Re: Students flee field as computer 'fad fades' (1987)

#180
post #13

Was this the actual feeling at the time? Or just one reporters perspective, spun into a story. I feel like the ad for $7.95 prime rib is probably a more relevant data point from the past than this article. Edit: Gourmet House: https://www.bismarckcafe.com/blogs/260/remembering-gourmet-h...

I think the article is fine, the title is just pre-WWW clickbait. This quote seems a fair assessment, but doesn't exactly match the headline: "There certainly is going to be a need for more and better technical talent in the high-tech industry." So enrollment dropped from 2.1% to 1.6% after the hot computer jobs market cooled a bit, and reality set-in for several of the students who weren't very technical, and just e…

It's still happening.

Half of the students here think CS is about games and fun, once they realize it's maths and pretty dry stuff they switch to something else.

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