Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

abc.net.au

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 361 posts

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#171

Post by WJW »

usrusr wrote: post #154
WJW wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already the third or fourth such app that was either infiltrated by the police, taken over by the police or outright constructed by them. Criminals have a vested interest in getting access to encrypted communications and they know that all of the common phone OSes and chat apps are compromised, so they will be looking to join such secure networks. This need for security is what makes the continued use of thes…

My impression is that in all those cases the root weakness was that those criminals liked to feel sophisticated, "in the know". So those special apps (special, from our perspective, as in euphemism for birth defect) could spread by fashion. The smalltimes like to imitate the big ones while the big ones try to stay ahead of the curve, eager to pick up anything new from upstarts before they become big. It might be my H…

I think it is also just a natural "feature of the terrain". Criminals need to communicate with their customers and each other to coordinate, but they cannot use "normal" apps because those can be presumed to be compromised by the police. This creates a natural funnel where criminals are driven to these custom apps, similar to how old-time armies would fight over things like river crossings and mountain passes because the opponent had no choice but to go there if they wanted to invade at all.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#172

Post by Zenst »

jliptzin wrote: post #150

I wonder how much crime would be left if the drug trade were legalized

Alcohol and tobacco are legal in many countries and yet you still get counterfeits and illegal production.

Also drug use is often not down to that user having a fair happy reality and oh so often the product of bigger issues that go untackled and addressing those social injustices would do far more to address crime overall than just legalising drugs.

Now if they legalised drugs and used that tax income to address those social issues, then we would see progress and more so, some fairness restored.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#174

Post by simondotau »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #106
simondotau wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing wrong with inhibiting growth in return for long term stability. Does it matter if your competition is more daring—if they aren't going to last very long? If anything, they might serve as a useful distraction.

> Nothing wrong with inhibiting growth in return for long term stability For long-term plans to pay off, they must survive a series of short terms. Criminal gangs and dictators don’t ignore the long term because they’re stupid. They ignore them because they must. A drug gang practicing classical tradecraft would be decimated by one coördinating electronically. The latter will be caught faster. But a series of short-t…

I can't help but imagine that what you're describing are the criminal gangs we know about; the ones which are well documented. If there are criminal gangs which we don't know about, that aren’t well documented, perhaps they're better at maintaining long term stability.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#175

Post by 9wzYQbTYsAIc »

spoonjim wrote: post #72
liquidify wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Representing criminals is not unethical or 'immoral'. Period. Protecting criminals legally is not unethical unless you are knowingly doing something illegal yourself. I imagine that most layers are just doing their job and getting paid for it. Bringing morality into that equation makes no sense in a legal system that has little to nothing to do with morality.

You don’t get to declare what is unethical by adding the sentence “Period.” after your claim. Ethics is a matter of opinion; I believe that knowingly aiding violent criminals is wrong; if you feel otherwise, that’s just like, your, opinion, man.

Rhetorically, yes he/she/they do get to do that.

Ethics is a matter of philosophy, which has a bit more going for it than just being composed of raw, uneducated opinion.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#176

Post by 9wzYQbTYsAIc »

spoonjim wrote: post #89
WalterBright wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is entitled (in the US) to due process and a lawyer to defend them. There is nothing unethical or immoral about it. It's a fundamental right .

Again, ethics are a matter of opinion, laws are a matter of fact. Yes, in the US you have the legal right to an attorney. Whether that attorney is behaving ethically depends on the attorney’s behavior and the person making the judgment on the ethics. You and I don’t have to have the same opinion on what’s ethical. We can each advocate for our own ideas of ethics to be codified into policy.

I’d highly recommend that you study formal ethics. Ethics is not built on a platform of opinions.

Unless you are the sort of person that claims that reality is just an opinion, too, in which case you should also study formal philosophy.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#177

Post by hamilyon2 »

cromka wrote: post #70

What we've learned is only what was in Austrlia's piece of the cake, given they started their day already. New Zeland had theirs already, too. I imagine thousands of arrests are still happening worldwide and several press conferences are going to be held today. Looking at the seal of the operation ( https://www.anom.io/trojan_shield_seal.jpg ), following countries participated in the operation: Canada, Australia, US,…

Bitcoin price might take a hit or two.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#178

Post by _trampeltier »

nneonneo wrote: post #57

There are more details in a recently unsealed search warrant against a GMail user: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.casd.70... An informant (confidential human source, or "CHS") helped the FBI and AFP (Australian Federal Police) develop and distribute Anom to criminal gangs (transnational criminal organizations, or "TCOs"): > The CHS offered this next generation device, named “Anom,” to the FBI to…

Wonder what other chat apps like Encrochat and this one does exist. Might be fun to take a closer look.

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#179

Post by tgragnato »

nexuist wrote: post #64
Santosh83 wrote: post #7

The lesson here is complete trust in modern computing platforms is misplaced and impossible. Your hardware has backdoors, so does your OS, and encryption clients. In addition, popular apps, especially in the US, can always be commandeered by 3-letter agencies. You're only anonymous as long as you're not actively targetted, despite using "secure" apps and stuff like Tor, which media makes it seem are unbreakable.

> Your hardware has backdoors, so does your OS, and encryption clients None of these were exploited to retrieve this data, and the third party app that was installed was not intended to encrypt conversations given that it was a honeypot. > popular apps This was a small app unknown by anyone outside of criminal orgs. It had no "legitimate" non-criminal users. > especially in the US The app was deployed in Australia. >…

> How long did it take to find Bin Laden?

Bin Laden used couriers in place of digital communications. And the trail that led to him began with his most trusted courier.

Allegedly, al-Kuwayti was uncovered, some of his communications were intercepted, and then he was followed up to Bin Laden's refuge.

> Who would download some random chat app that nobody uses?

The only thing that slowed the capture was using a courier network. Are you a criminal? Do not use a phone.

Seriously, criminals should know better, whether they are petty drug dealers or major terrorists.

Misplaced faith in cryptography is the gift that keeps on giving.

... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG

Re: Australian Federal Police and FBI nab underworld figures using encrypted app

#180

Post by Tabular-Iceberg »

This seems to be just a messaging app, but is there a market for more full-featured ERP, CRM and project management software for criminal enterprises?

I'm sure they would benefit from those just the same way legitimate enterprises do. The only difference is that they do more illegal stuff and use more violence, but the fundamental business dynamics should be the same.

Post reply on HN