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Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#171

Post by windthrown »

beauzero wrote: post #153
morsch wrote: post #80

Its cousin, the American paddlefish, is still around, though it's vulnerable. Among other similar reasons (overfishing, pollution), dams are related to its decline: "Series of dams on rivers such as those constructed on the Missouri River have impounded large populations of American paddlefish, and blocked their upstream migration to spawning shoals.[29]" But it's not too late... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America…

Fishing is highly...and I do mean highly regulated in Montana (spawning grounds). http://fieldguide.mt.gov/speciesDetail.aspx?elcode=AFCAB0101... There are wildlife biologists that harvest the eggs and process the meat for you. You must apply for tags and the season can be shutdown if a limit is reached before the end of the season. I fished it once and was glad I didn't catch anything. My heart wasn't in it after I…

This is going to come off much snarkier than I mean it, but were rice and beans not available in Montana at that time? I am a big fan of seafood but there is a lot of "quality protein" middle ground between meat and mac and cheese.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#172

Post by Clewza313 »

passer_chen wrote: post #166

"Extinct" means no longer existing, but the news ( https://3g.163.com/dy/article/GAVLG6910514TQ42.html ) says "The Chinese Sturgeon Research Institute in Yichang, Hubei Province, is the only institution that continuously conducts the breeding and release of Chinese sturgeon. Founded nearly 40 years ago, the Chinese Sturgeon Research Institute has made a series of advances in the artificial breeding of Chinese sturgeo…

That's a different fish:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_sturgeon (Acipenser sinensis)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_paddlefish (Psephurus gladius)

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#173

Post by ArnoVW »

waheoo wrote: post #160
yellow_lead wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peter Hessler writes about his experience in Sichuan during the time the three gorges dam was being built [1]. Many people have had to sacrifice a lot for these dams. However, IIRC many receive some form of compensation from the government (adequate or not). [1] https://www.amazon.com/River-Town-Years-Yangtze-P-S/dp/00608...

There is no amount of money that can compensate the archeological loss from the intentional flooding of these areas. Multiple cradle of civilization level sites were flooded with not enough funding or effort given to excavating these sites thoroughly before flooding.

For those wanting to get an idea of what that means, there is an episode of that institute of of science documentaries, BBC Horizon, that covers the flooding of Zeugma.

https://youtu.be/fnY8ATNVYgw

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#174

Post by Ekaros »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #148
thehappypm wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being anti-dam is environmental NIMBYism. A dam focuses externalities on the same communities that benefit from the dam (jobs and revenue). Fossil fuels benefit the producers but everyone suffers the externalities.

> Being anti-dam is environmental NIMBYism. Hard disagree. Dams simply need to be categorized as dirty energy. They are probably less dirty than coal or natural gas energy. However dams are dirty and they should be treated as such. Categorizing an energy source as dirty does not mean we don't use it. It doesn't even mean we don't build more of it. We don't have 100% clean energy today. I hope that someday we do. And…

Then is anything clean? As wind and solar both have clear externalities in manufacturing and decommissioning...

Probably well burned wood and other biomass might qualify. Though that is quite complex thing to do at least with particulate emissions...

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#175

Post by josefx »

Ekaros wrote: post #174
forrestthewoods wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being anti-dam is environmental NIMBYism. Hard disagree. Dams simply need to be categorized as dirty energy. They are probably less dirty than coal or natural gas energy. However dams are dirty and they should be treated as such. Categorizing an energy source as dirty does not mean we don't use it. It doesn't even mean we don't build more of it. We don't have 100% clean energy today. I hope that someday we do. And…

Then is anything clean? As wind and solar both have clear externalities in manufacturing and decommissioning... Probably well burned wood and other biomass might qualify. Though that is quite complex thing to do at least with particulate emissions...

Do these externalities also affect thermal solar power? It tends to be a bit less efficient than photovoltaic when it comes to power production but probably avoids the rare earth metals.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#176

Post by Someone »

worldsayshi wrote: post #31
faitswulff wrote: post #9

Hopefully they have a DNA sample somewhere. What a shame.

I was just thinking, are there any initiatives in long term DNA storage of extinct or endangered species? Then there might at least be a chance to bring them back one day?

Long term DNA storage can be done digitally.

I doubt DNA alone will be enough, though. Mothers provide proteins and messenger RNA to their offspring, and the young may learn crucial skills from their parents.

If you put mammoth DNA in an elephant egg, you may get something that looks like a mammoth, but will it ever behave like one?

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#177

Post by dexwell »

MawKKe wrote: post #122
HMH wrote: post #102

Interestingly there is a term for the last known member of a species: Endling [1]. Scrolling through that Wikipedia article always gives me an eerie feeling. It looks like the Chinese paddlefish is not listed yet though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endling

Last time similar topic came up (either here or reddit), someone posted this recording of a ”Kauaʻi ʻōʻō” bird [1] in which a male, apparently the last of its species, is trying to connect with a female. Reeally eerie. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDRY0CmcYNU

My gods, this broke me.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#178

Post by Andy-AO »

samstave wrote: post #140
yellow_lead wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peter Hessler writes about his experience in Sichuan during the time the three gorges dam was being built [1]. Many people have had to sacrifice a lot for these dams. However, IIRC many receive some form of compensation from the government (adequate or not). [1] https://www.amazon.com/River-Town-Years-Yangtze-P-S/dp/00608...

What compensation do the paddlefish get ;-)

Sturgeon itself does not need to get any compensation, it is not human, no human rights.

The construction of the dam can bring a lot of immediate benefits, which is insignificant compared with the ecological damage caused, because if the economic development is not good, the environmental pollution will only be more serious, and the phenomenon of survival through predation of wild animals will only be more common.

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#179

Post by gadf »

petre wrote: post #64
mattmaroon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know China is not a democracy right? There’s only one organization in China with any real power and they’re the ones building the dams. The environment collapsing so that it can’t support people is a pretty drastic leap from running certain fish into extinction.

They Chinese fishing fleet is also overfishing in international waters, so don't expect the CCP to care much about driving fish into extinction. The Soviet fishing fleet also massacred a huge amount of whales just to meet dumb quotas imposed in a centrally planned economy. There was not much real demand for whale meat or oil in the Soviet Union.

But it's big in Japan

Re: Chinese paddlefish, one of the world's largest fish, declared extinct

#180

Post by gadf »

jmclnx wrote: post #70
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #37

> This dam, which was constructed without a fish ladder or bypass, cut off the paddlefish from their only spawning grounds upstream, which had only been discovered in the late 1970s. How effective are fish ladders? If they’re effective, shouldn’t we focus on building a fish ladder on all existing dams?

Well these fish were very large. I cannot imagine what a fish ladder would look like. There is one for salmon where I live and it is not that big. They have been trying to bring salmon back for over 30 years. Not much luck so far.

Maybe more like a fish lock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lock_(water_navigation)

No jumping required

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