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ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

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Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#171

Post by [deleted] »

dmurray wrote: post #162
neltnerb wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I appreciate this comment, it is weird that it floated to the very top when the article is about location tracking built into Android by Google. Protonmail might have issues, but the threat of some leaked information through javascript and/or cookies (hello google fonts!) can be attributed to literally every site that uses recaptcha whereas the article is talking about a much, much worse practice of tracki…

Agreed! Proton could do better, but conflating their privacy approach (or, say, Apple's or Mozilla's) with Google's is exactly what Google would want you to do. "See - everyone harvests your data, at least we tend to keep it in house". Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[deleted]

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#172

Post by abnercoimbre »

duckfang wrote: post #125
spiderice wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re replies are very frustrating. It’s like you’re completely missing the point of the replies and focusing on very tiny, irrelevant details. Nobody is claiming that you can’t remove deactivated accounts. Only that you charge for them until you go through the rather annoying process of contacting customer support. And then you make some bad excuse that it’s in the name of security because somebody could potentiall…

This line of discussion from Protonmail is making me greatly reconsider closing my accounts (plural) there for VPN and mail service. This is embarrassing at minimum, and show negative interaction with customers.

Their service is so useful to me. But man, I can't deny their customer interactions can be problematic (as evidenced.)

Is it that the developers 100% defer to a marketing rep without in-depth knowledge? Something else?

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#173

Post by caymanjim »

RussianCow wrote: post #31
antiterra wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t self-hosting also have privacy downsides, being that all the hardware is tied to you? I’d imagine whatever minor resistance to wiretapping a multiuser site gave regarding privacy of non-investigated individuals would disappear.

It depends on your threat model. If you’re worried about big companies like Google harvesting your data, self-hosting is a great solution because you remove them from the equation entirely. On the other hand, if you’re worried about three-letter government agencies, you need to go through much more extreme measures. Most people aren’t as concerned with the latter, though.

This is why I self-host. I'm not trying to hide from the government, as I know they don't care about me. Sure, in principle I don't want them snooping me, but it's not a concern. I self-host because I don't want companies snooping all my data.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#174

Post by yorwba »

protonmail wrote: post #76
Aachen wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That probably means you have tracking enabled. I'm not a protonmail user (I host my own email) but from my general experience with recaptcha, try opening it in a private navigation window. If recaptcha doesn't ask you to solve anything, they've already been tracking you to make up its mind. Of course, whether this is fine by you is up to you, but it sounds like you might be unaware of this.

No, there's no tracking in ProtonMail. Captchas appearing is entirely based upon IP reputation and number of recent login attempts.

Maybe you could also display that information when you show a captcha. "We've observed x login attempts from your IP in the last y days."

Usually you wouldn't want to make it easy for botnet owners to find out they've been caught, but since displaying the captcha already reveals that, having an explanation might help regular users who got a low-reputation IP assigned.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#175

Post by tweetle_beetle »

loh wrote: post #107
amelius wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It used to be the case that both ProtonMail and FastMail were frequently recommended on HN. So, how is FastMail doing in comparison?

Check out TricepMail.com. I'm curious to see what HN thinks of it.

Services like email don't have a high barrier to entry and most customers don't have complex technical requirements, so much of choosing a provider is based on trust and instinct - rightly or wrongly.

I remember a while ago someone promoting a new email service that "focused on privacy", etc. A few knowledgeable HN users quickly pointed out they were running Mail-in-a-Box on a single Digital Ocean droplet.

Your open source link contains nothing, your blog has no posts, your Windows app is not found in the store, your privacy policy is from a free policy generator tool, there are no reviews due to the service being new and there is no documentation for how to use custom domains, etc. You may offer an excellent service, but there's not a lot to base trust on.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#176

Post by mannerheim »

caymanjim wrote: post #168
mannerheim wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a way to solve it would be to accept a nominal fee of cryptocurrency. Even a one-time fee of e.g. $5 would probably put a damper in someone trying to sign up for thousands of accounts while preserving privacy for real users.

Alas this is a business-ending barrier. Despite its popularity, in the grand scheme of things, not many people have a crypto account. It's also only semi-anonymous, depending on how you fund it. It'd be nice if more businesses accepted crypto, but it isn't viable as a requirement or primary payment mechanism.

I think it would be useful enough in the context of anti-spam while preserving anonymity, not necessarily as a source of generating revenue. There are cryptocurrencies that preserve anonymity as well.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#177

Post by duckfang »

abnercoimbre wrote: post #172
duckfang wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of discussion from Protonmail is making me greatly reconsider closing my accounts (plural) there for VPN and mail service. This is embarrassing at minimum, and show negative interaction with customers.

Their service is so useful to me. But man, I can't deny their customer interactions can be problematic (as evidenced.) Is it that the developers 100% defer to a marketing rep without in-depth knowledge? Something else?

Same here, with their email AND vpn. Its been flawless so far, tech wise.

But yeah, they really need to control and focus their core message to a tech board. If you whiff that (which they did), there's a good chance in running off your core users. And that is generally considered a bad idea.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#178

Post by caymanjim »

plank_time wrote: post #37
gloriousternary wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that particular source is well known for making big claims with insufficient evidence, and it reads like it was written by a conspiracy theorist. Many of the author's claims have already been (imo, pretty solidly) refuted by Proton. Disclaimer: using protonmail until my current subscription runs out, then selfhosting

Self hosting these days is almost impossible because most email providers like gmail and yahoo mail will automatically move your emails to spam. It’s all based on IP address and how reliable that IP address is. Self hosting guarantees that all your sent email will end up in spam folders.

This isn't true at all. I self-host email, with full SPF/DKIM/dmarc, ESMTP, and my email isn't rejected anywhere. I'm sending and receiving via a Digital Ocean VPS. I've had the same IP for six years, and never had a problem.

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#179

Post by fvv »

caymanjim wrote: post #168
mannerheim wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a way to solve it would be to accept a nominal fee of cryptocurrency. Even a one-time fee of e.g. $5 would probably put a damper in someone trying to sign up for thousands of accounts while preserving privacy for real users.

Alas this is a business-ending barrier. Despite its popularity, in the grand scheme of things, not many people have a crypto account. It's also only semi-anonymous, depending on how you fund it. It'd be nice if more businesses accepted crypto, but it isn't viable as a requirement or primary payment mechanism.

No mannerheim is correct , you are saying yeah but some people can't.. but his solution solve the issue , if you want to register under tor over anonymous and secure mail system having 5$ Monero is the easiest thing to procure.. there are communities that trade for cash or you can even mine anonymous there may be other alternatives.. but one solution to avoid bots doesn't exclude others you as subscriber should be able to choose the one that fits to you so saying some may find it difficult doesn't say that this solution is invalid . Just that maybe must not be the only option available

Re: ProtonMail includes Google Recaptcha for login

#180

Post by nichos »

toastercat wrote: post #10

I can recommend Migadu. Worth it if you already pay for a domain (which you should, imo, to have a portable e-mail address). I pay for the $19 annual plan and find it sufficient, and I love the flexibility of the admin panel.

I considered Migadu, but saw their stance on freespeech and decided not to go with them: https://www.migadu.com/use/#anti-violence-commitment "Hate speech" is too vague and highly subjective and just leads to censorship.
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