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Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

reuters.com

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Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#171

Post by fsflover »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #82
zpeti wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal take: There might well be ponzi schemes on top of the bitcoin infrastructure, but the technology behind bitcoin is not a ponzi scheme. It might well be that a lot of people are crazed over it and want to buy bitcoin and push up the price, but that's because there is something here with cryptocurrency. It definitely is a new way of accounting, and it could potentially be a hedge against the fiat system. Th…

> I still think it is revolutionary technology that may well revolutionise things in 5-10 or 50 years, who knows. If there's one thing I love most about the technology behind bitcoin, it is the permanent, public, unalterable ledger of every purchase I've ever made and every purchase I'll every make, and who I gave the money to. I'm super excited about the complete lack of personal financial privacy that Bitcoin's blo…

If you care about privacy, then consider Monero.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#172

Post by arcticbull »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #119
tadzik_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different If $SPY was 40% up since last month, would that be normal? ETH is still currently higher than its value from April 19th. Cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile. This isn't that far from normal.

SPY is up 50% since 2019 (pre covid crash). As someone partially invested in index ETFs, this worries me. Index funds aren't supposed to be nitro, they are supposed to be slow and plodding, and 10% annual is supposed to be huge. I think major indices should be nice, slow, inertial gains from ~6-7% annual, tops. Why? When at any point as an engineer or a scientist have you observed large exponential growth to be susta…

There are nitro versions of all the index funds but you usually have to buy them separately, and they come with their own fat stack of disclosures haha.

For SPY see UPRO, for QQQ see TQQQ.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#173

Post by anewaccount2021 »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #56

Bitcoin is the ultimate, purely financial object. It has no revenues or profits. The supply is fixed -- unlike, say, gold, where high prices mean people will eventually start digging mines, BTC supply is entirely price-inelastic. The only thing that determines BTC price is demand. And over the past 13 years, we've seen reflexivity at work: The price has gone up, so more people want it, so the price goes up further, a…

How is BTC any different than gold?

The difficulty ratchet in BTC mining means extracting new coins is rising in difficulty, just like the difficulty in extracting better-hidden gold. The supply of gold is indeed fixed unless you can pull it out of an asteroid.

The major difference is that BTC is trivial to destroy, gold not so. There is no economic way to actually destroy gold.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#174

Post by arcticbull »

inter_netuser wrote: post #112
kllrnohj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin & Ether are both down -40% from a week to a month ago. Both of those are, in theory, large enough that investors "letting off some steam" shouldn't move them that much. If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different. Also unlike the stock market, crypto is under the delusion of being a viable currency. If USD or Euro dropped even 20% we'd start questioning if it's a recession, much le…

That's because Bitcoin is very tightly held, and the amount of tradeable float is very very small compared to holdings. This results in outsized volatility, as it is still a developing market. 1T for a global currency is very small. We'll see how it behaves at 10T.

> That's because Bitcoin is very tightly held, and the amount of tradeable float is very very small compared to holdings.

By the diamond-est of hands: those who lost their keys.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#175

Post by knowaveragejoe »

ourcat wrote: post #78

Surely this is also very much related to the recent announcement in China [1], banning financial institutions and payment companies from providing services related to cryptocurrencies? [1 : https://www.reuters.com/world/china/what-beijings-new-crackd... ]

This quote made me laugh:

"Hong Kong's Bitcoin Association said in a tweet in response to China's reiterated ban: "For those new to bitcoin, it is customary for the People's Bank of China to ban bitcoin at least once in a bull cycle."

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#177

Post by stephc_int13 »

argvargc wrote: post #159
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it's because the hype isn't around the technology (which is the interesting part and for the most part, why we're on HN), it's around the speculation. From the outside, looks like a bunch of gamblers constantly getting each other off on whether their bets will make them millionares. It's just...sad...at a level.

Yes. And I'd add the "hype" around speculation works both ways, coming from mainly from two camps: - those who care only about making money - those who care only about seeing crypto fail OTOH, the excitement and bustling activity around the actual technology is largely ignored by the mainstream media, and seems also conspicuously-absent here. Many are not aware such a vibrant developmental ecosystem - with altruistic…

I've tried to follow the scene, but I still don't understand the value behind the tech.

In my opinion, states and currencies are almost the same thing.

As an ex-anarchist I think that it is unreasonable to completely remove centralized states or currencies.

Because the alternative is worse.

People might have altruistic intentions, it does not matter.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#178

Post by Mc_Big_G »

cromka wrote: post #106
tadzik_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different If $SPY was 40% up since last month, would that be normal? ETH is still currently higher than its value from April 19th. Cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile. This isn't that far from normal.

> Cryptocurrency market is extremely volatile. This isn't that far from normal. I think you inadvertently confirm OPs point. Cryptocurrencies with their volatility cannot replace regular currencies.

This makes no sense. 1 BTC still equals 1 BTC.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#179

Post by arcticbull »

virgilp wrote: post #69
kllrnohj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin & Ether are both down -40% from a week to a month ago. Both of those are, in theory, large enough that investors "letting off some steam" shouldn't move them that much. If $SPY dropped 40% we'd all call it a crash. This isn't that different. Also unlike the stock market, crypto is under the delusion of being a viable currency. If USD or Euro dropped even 20% we'd start questioning if it's a recession, much le…

If SPY dropped to the level where it was at the start of the year, would we call it a crash? Also, maybe BTC is not like SPY but more like TSLA.

Honestly, if SPY returned to 368, a 13% draw-down from the near-term peak, the financial press would lose their damn minds. That's half way between correction and bear market territory.

Re: Crypto crash deepens, stocks slip

#180

Post by distances »

jasonlaramburu wrote: post #155
jmacd wrote: post #11

As an outside observer, who has no crypto holdings at all, but is very deeply invested in the public stock market with a heavy weight on technology stocks... this doesn't look like a crash to me at all. It just looks like some steam being let off and old investors cash out and new investors get more comfortable with how much and where to invest. I consider crypto currency as it is to be an elaborate Ponzi scheme (per…

I wonder what % of our Economic stimulus was used to buy crypto, and how much of that money has simply disappeared over the past 24 hours.

It wouldn't disappear, money is just changing hands. Bitcoin doesn't add or destroy any value, it's just a speculative way of zero-sum trade. When you buy bitcoin, someone else gets your money.
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