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Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

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Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#171

Post by skystarman »

8bitsrule wrote: post #4

Lotta early-rock-history-for-newbs in there, I'll give it that. Dylan's insights - race, payola, manipulation - were already gospel long ago, for example in 1984 in Patrick Montgomery's Rock and Roll: The Early Days (1984). [0] (Despite the resolution) Enjoy! (About the garage-band thing supposedly happening? Not on the radio!) [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL2K-KrtBNs Edit: while I'm on it, if you'd like exper…

"rock history for newbs" is unfair.

I'm in my 30s and would say I have an above-average knowledge of rock history and still learned a decent amount.

Yes Payola is nothing new or unheard of, but how that played into segregation in music is something that's rarely discussed in tandem at least in popular contexts.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#172

Post by skystarman »

dang wrote: post #108

I wouldn't have thought the article was very good, and the title is neither an accurate representation of what Dylan said, nor really what the article is about. But this thread is surprisingly pretty good! As a gloss on what Dylan is saying about race and the music business, this clip where David Bowie turns the tables on an MTV interviewer in 1983 is worth watching, in a high-tension sort of way. He's pretty impress…

Yeah, this is a really great video, thanks for sharing "woke" Bowie.

As you say, he ages well, except for his molesting young girls in the '70s. There's at least two 15 year olds that admit having sex with him.

I'm a Bowie fan but it's difficult to separate those unacceptable acts from the great things he did.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#173

Post by mncharity »

Kye wrote: post #126
Balgair wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you look at what is happening on Bandcamp or Soundcloud or YouTube or wherever else young people are trying new things you see a tremendous heterogeneity of inspiration and not a lot of concern for where the sound fits in. One way I have heard to mentally categorize things: What is the stereotypical musical instrument of that generation/genre? For jazz and the silent generation it was the saxophone, maybe ot…

The laptop is probably on the way out for a lot of electronic music. I just got a Launchpad X to see what all the hype was about, and it's a lot of fun. The fancier Pro MK3 model can hook right up to a synthesizer. You can already get a fully independent music-making tool in the higher-end Maschine+. I wouldn't be surprised if the inevitable Ableton Push 3 was standalone.

> The laptop is probably on the way out for a lot of electronic music.

The VR "EXA: The Infinite Instrument"[1] seemed one intriguing window on the future. Development looks stalled.

[1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/606920/EXA_The_Infinite_I...

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#174

Post by Kye »

mncharity wrote: post #173
Kye wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The laptop is probably on the way out for a lot of electronic music. I just got a Launchpad X to see what all the hype was about, and it's a lot of fun. The fancier Pro MK3 model can hook right up to a synthesizer. You can already get a fully independent music-making tool in the higher-end Maschine+. I wouldn't be surprised if the inevitable Ableton Push 3 was standalone.

> The laptop is probably on the way out for a lot of electronic music. The VR "EXA: The Infinite Instrument"[1] seemed one intriguing window on the future. Development looks stalled. [1] https://store.steampowered.com/app/606920/EXA_The_Infinite_I...

There was a TV show a long time ago that was basically 3D demo reels. This reminded me of that. I can't remember the name. It might have been part of another show.

edit: It was Eye Drops on TechTV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlM2LFPjS5k

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#175

Post by wholinator2 »

krapp wrote: post #65
dangerbird2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If you listen to "hillbilly music" and "blues" from the 20s and 30s, or "rock" and "r&b" from the 50s or 60s, they are musically indistinguishable. The difference almost always solely lies in the race of the musicians or the target audience

Literally the reason "rock and roll" exists as a label was to segregate "ethnic" (read: Black) music in record stores and on the radio for a white audience.

Interesting and damning claim! Do you have a source for it? Ive googled around and found no mention of race in the articles I've read

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#176

Post by Joeboy »

> why, in 1967, was it so rare to see a black man ... fronting a major American rock band

The band referred to is The Jimi Hendrix Experience, a two thirds British band, assembled by a British manager, in Britain, where they recorded Are You Experienced and got famous. It would seem to me that they were effectively a "British invasion" band in the US. Hendrix's break in America was the Monterey Pop Festival, which he headlined at the instigation of Paul McCartney, a member of the mother of all British Invasion bands.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#177

Post by awithrow »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #157
dangerbird2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If you listen to "hillbilly music" and "blues" from the 20s and 30s, or "rock" and "r&b" from the 50s or 60s, they are musically indistinguishable. The difference almost always solely lies in the race of the musicians or the target audience

I finally got around to listening to Led Zepplin I the other day...a couple of times I thought to myself "man, this sounds like the blues."

A lot of heavy metal is the blues played very fast and with heavy distortion. So many of the solos by Pantera use the blues scale

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#178

Post by jtdev »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #23

The article makes a very strenuous effort to make a point about something something racism in rock that sounds a bit boring and trite to my ears. After all, Bon Scott said it best years ago: In the beginning Back in nineteen fifty five Man didn't know 'bout a rock 'n' roll show And all that jive The white man had the schmaltz The black man had the blues No one knew what they was gonna do But Tchaikovsky had the news…

Because culture has been weaponized against minorities:

“The poverty rate among black married couples has been in single digits ever since 1994. You would never learn that from most of the media. Similarly if you look at those blacks that have gone on to college or finished college, the incarceration rate is some tiny fraction of what it is among those blacks who have dropped out of high school. So it’s not being black; it’s a way of life. Unfortunately, the way of life is being celebrated not only in rap music, but among the intelligentsia, is a way of life that leads to a lot of very big problems for most people.” - Thomas Sowell

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#179

Post by hackflip »

ndesaulniers wrote: post #157
dangerbird2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If you listen to "hillbilly music" and "blues" from the 20s and 30s, or "rock" and "r&b" from the 50s or 60s, they are musically indistinguishable. The difference almost always solely lies in the race of the musicians or the target audience

I finally got around to listening to Led Zepplin I the other day...a couple of times I thought to myself "man, this sounds like the blues."

Half their songs are covers of older blues songs.

Re: Bob Dylan lays down what killed rock n roll (2016)

#180

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #152
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> techno (yes, created by African-Americans in Detroit) if you define "techno" in a very particular way, that's true. if you define "techno" in the broader sense in which it is typically used, it was created by Germans in Dusseldorf, whose music is acknowledged by the Detroit scene makers as pivotal in their own evolution.

“House” is more likely the term that makes sense in that sentence.

That depends. The original house DJs didn't define "house" as a particular style of music at all, but rather the combination of all the different styles and the vibe of the club(s) or parties it was played in. Kraftwerk were definitely a part of the typical house DJ sets, but so were a lot of other bands whose music was of several very different styles.

House didn't really come to mean what we think of as "house" today until Detroit had already started the "techno" thing, at which point "house" became a somewhat smoother form of dance music that also used mostly electronic instruments.

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