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Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

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171–180 of 228 posts

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're certainly welcome to disagree, but Google would be the first to tell you how relevant the number of pages indexed would be. When you actually measured the result relevance number, it turned out that all the major engines were pretty similar, and Google often was not the top one. More importantly though, the observed phenomenon was that no matter how bad the results you presented were, most people didn't switch…

I am no longer a Google fan. Haven't been for years so there's no bias. > More importantly though, the observed phenomenon was that no matter how bad the results you presented were, most people didn't switch to another search engine. That may be the case today because the results are similar now, but it wasn't the same case years ago. The ancient search engines prior to Google weren't much better than human curated d…

> I am no longer a Google fan. Haven't been for years so there's no bias.

I'm sorry, I guess I inferred the wrong conclusion from your statements. I would argue that your perception of Google at the time would be a more significant factor influencing your perception of their performance, but that's actually largely beside the point.

> That may be the case today because the results are similar now, but it wasn't the same case years ago. The ancient search engines prior to Google weren't much better than human curated directories like Yahoo. Otherwise, why would anyone switch from them to Google?

I think your question at the end there underlines the central point of confusion here. While some people do indeed switch search engines (depending on how you measure, somewhere between 10-30% of users), the vast majority do not. Even when presented with what one would expect to be the worst search engine in the world (one that presented only paid search results), most people would not switch to another engine.

So the answer to your question is: most people don't switch from any particular search engine to any other search engine.

I would be the first to agree that there was definitely a window of time where Google was observably producing better search results than their competitors, and I'm sure you were amongst many others (including myself) who switched to them at that time... but again, that was a small subset of the population.

The search engine space was (and is) very competitive, and it did not take long for competitors to react and close the gap. When we measured performance in 2004, Google did not come out on top. Subsequent measurements produced similar outcomes, although occasionally Google would come out on top. Having more relevant results definitely lead to increased adoption, but only of a small segment of the much larger market.

Unless you count AOL searches as part of Google, Google didn't lead in market share until ~2004 (and it really wasn't until 2005 that they were ahead by more than a paper-thin margin). At that point, they had slightly less than 30% market share as compared to present market share which is closer to 90%. Even by 2004, the predominant way that search engines acquired new users was not through "switchers" changing search engines because of better results, but rather because of distribution deals (like the deal Google had with AOL) where a distributor would make a particular engine the first one users were presented with.

Think of it this way: how many times have you checked to see if other search engines were performing better than Google? After you switched to using Google, how regularly did you check to see if other alternatives were doing a better job? Most people I've spoken with never even heard of Powerset, let alone tried it to see if it served their needs better than Google. If consumers never check, it's hard to believe product performance makes a difference, right?

That's the reality of the search engine business. It certainly helps to be better than everyone else at search, but it is no where near the primary driver of market share.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#172
post #72
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are flabbergasted by the fact Yahoo, and everyone else for that matter, thought it absolutely impossible to disrupt Google (except for perhaps a handful of hubris-riddled people at MS), please remember the general sentiment HN used to have towards Google who according to us, at that time, could do no wrong. They were infallible. They were the brightest people in the world. They were The Good Guy (TM). They wer…

> We just drank the cool aid and clicked "install". That's misrepresenting the search market's reality though. For most people, they never clicked install.

> That's misrepresenting the search market's reality though. For most people, they never clicked install.

The author was talking about Chrome.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#173
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are flabbergasted by the fact Yahoo, and everyone else for that matter, thought it absolutely impossible to disrupt Google (except for perhaps a handful of hubris-riddled people at MS), please remember the general sentiment HN used to have towards Google who according to us, at that time, could do no wrong. They were infallible. They were the brightest people in the world. They were The Good Guy (TM). They wer…

Chrome was an excellent browser when it launched... It might not be able to compete with such a wide gap against all the Chromium based clones out there now, but it was rightfully an amazing experience. Initially its only competition felt like Firefox

a list of shockers

- streamed install process (download a shim of 300kB which will stream the rest)

- obviously the chromeless ui

- the dynamic status bar (ok that was the point above)

- downloads shown below (as cute as the status bar, actually I miss that thing)

- something about tab closing that was more regular (no need to move your mouse)

- option / printing lean and fast

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#174

I worked at Yahoo! when this was going on, I’m amazed the share holders didn’t sue Jerry Yang and the board for avoiding this sale. Yahoo had very little of technological value and was actively trying to destroy its own search business amongst other properties at the time. They really were in a prime position and bungled it extremely badly, I think they had maybe 20% of the search market at the time. Carol Bartz late…

I never understood why Yahoo got so wrapped around the axle with the search engine business. I used to use Yahoo a lot to start my web browsing and I liked the fact that it wasn't a search engine. They provided broad categories that you could click on and you could keep drilling down to more specific categories until you found relevant websites. Not always the best way to search the web but it was great when you didn…

Honestly 'search engine' was all the rage, to keep a business around curated finite lists was probably near suicide in most CEOs mind.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am no longer a Google fan. Haven't been for years so there's no bias. > More importantly though, the observed phenomenon was that no matter how bad the results you presented were, most people didn't switch to another search engine. That may be the case today because the results are similar now, but it wasn't the same case years ago. The ancient search engines prior to Google weren't much better than human curated d…

> I am no longer a Google fan. Haven't been for years so there's no bias. I'm sorry, I guess I inferred the wrong conclusion from your statements. I would argue that your perception of Google at the time would be a more significant factor influencing your perception of their performance, but that's actually largely beside the point. > That may be the case today because the results are similar now, but it wasn't the s…

Reading your comments, I am experiencing some cognitive dissonance. On one hand, you write very convincingly, and seem to have access to data showing that you are right.

On the other hand, my personal experience just tells me that you are wrong. Like the other commenters, I distinctly remember just how much better Google's search was back in the days. And I must be one of those cited 10%-30% of users that try to switch search engines, as in recent years I have tried twice to switch to DuckDuckGo for privacy reasons. Both times I had to return to Google because DuckDuckGo's results were just too bad (for me).

Perhaps you are right, and it is just an illusion that Google search results are better. But intuition and Occam's razor tells me that most likely it's just still the best general search engine.

One example supporting that theory is the fact that users have discovered that other search engines, first Bing, and now Yandex, are better suited for specific types of content, and are indeed using those search engines when searching for that type of content. This goes counter to your claim that users don't switch search engines even when there is a difference in search result quality.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#176

I worked at Yahoo during this time. I said at the time it was so dumb for Microsoft to be wasting so much money on Yahoo and instead they should have bought massive holdings in almost every Silicon Valley company for that money, including Facebook (I think they did invest a little in Facebook). Had they done that instead they would have been worth multiple trillions now. They really avoided a huge disaster by walking…

> They really avoided a huge disaster by walking away from Yahoo, so I applaud them.

That offer included Yahoo's stake in Alibaba, which was split off after Microsoft's bid fell through. Yahoo owned 30% of Alibaba at the time. Alibaba's current market cap is north of $600 billion.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#177

The years from 2006 to 2010 gave rise to today's BigTech. Microsoft, Yahoo!, and Google were pioneers in the data-centers space. Amazon was only beginning to turn-up the heat. In retrospect, given the engineering talent and expertise at Y! at the time, it is a shame that in light of AWS' success they did not invest in Infrastructure-as-a-Service when their "web services" org was already churning out a range of tools…

> Cloud computing could have saved Y!'s bacon, even as a late entrant (MSFT re-launched Azure in 2010) MSFT could rely on a large enterprise-focused sales team with existing relationships with CIOs. Y! would not have had that luxury.

I mean, Amazon was an e-commerce company. There's a credible argument to be made that better tech won customers first.

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#178

I worked at Yahoo during this time. I said at the time it was so dumb for Microsoft to be wasting so much money on Yahoo and instead they should have bought massive holdings in almost every Silicon Valley company for that money, including Facebook (I think they did invest a little in Facebook). Had they done that instead they would have been worth multiple trillions now. They really avoided a huge disaster by walking…

> Had they done that instead they would have been worth multiple trillions now.

They’re very close to being worth multiple trillions right now, their market cap is 5.44% shy of $2T

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#179

I worked at Yahoo! when this was going on, I’m amazed the share holders didn’t sue Jerry Yang and the board for avoiding this sale. Yahoo had very little of technological value and was actively trying to destroy its own search business amongst other properties at the time. They really were in a prime position and bungled it extremely badly, I think they had maybe 20% of the search market at the time. Carol Bartz late…

I never understood why Yahoo got so wrapped around the axle with the search engine business. I used to use Yahoo a lot to start my web browsing and I liked the fact that it wasn't a search engine. They provided broad categories that you could click on and you could keep drilling down to more specific categories until you found relevant websites. Not always the best way to search the web but it was great when you didn…

Don’t forget Flickr which they pretty much ran into the ground

Re: Microsoft bids $44.6B to buy Yahoo (2008)

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search revenue was $31,879 billion in Q1 and YT revenue was $6,005 billion. It doesn't seem like you're paying attention.

You’re still conflating “profit” with “revenue”. No one is doubting that YouTube’s revenue is substantial. There is doubt that it’s profit is substantial. If it isn’t contributing any meaningful profit to Google’s bottom line, it isn’t successful.

Would you say that Uber, Lyft, Spotify, and Tesla are all unsuccessful companies?
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