Nobody cares about your clean code • Hacker News Board

Re: Nobody cares about your clean code

#171

Post by mixmastamyk » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:38 PM UTC

paulmd wrote: post #167

mixmastamyk wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python has often been called "executable pseudocode." Avoid it and similar techniques at your detriment.

python still has syntax and still requires you to actually write code. your trite meme aside, python is not actually executable pseudocode, and writing actual pseudocode is still faster and requires less specificity (therefore less mental overhead). you're welcome to do whatever you want, but I'd rather do a pseudocode outline and then fill it in and have a statically typed program when I'm done, than to do a first-p…

The difference in productivity is substantial. Prototyping in a Python-like language and then porting to a more difficult but safer one has also shown good results as discussed in the rest of the thread.

Any condescension implied is a result of your long-winded rant of inexperience.

Re: Nobody cares about your clean code

#172

Post by mindcrash » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 11:55 PM UTC

If "nobody" cares you obviously never talked to someone running ops in your team, ever.

Or the CFO when he hears about that little nasty bug hidden away in a gigantic ball of mud (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_ball_of_mud) halting production over the SLA thresholds causing a massive financial issue.

Customers likely don't give a shit about code, but it can and probably will eventually run your org into the ground.

Re: Nobody cares about your clean code

#173

Post by whoomp12342 » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

_y5hn wrote: post #148

mannykannot wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not quite that simple: it is not unusual for an overall-clean solution in response to new requirements to require refactoring the existing codebase, even if that is a clean and minimal solution for the requirements up to that point. Even if you had anticipated that these additional requirements were likely, preparing in advance for their possibility would often mean over-engineering for the initial requirements,…

The problem with over-engineering is also that it makes other refactoring harder at later stages, or just discourages change. Some degree of shittiness actually improves agility, and encourages change.

Amen, I have been guilty of this as well. It is a hard line to walk between over engineering and future proofing something.

Re: Nobody cares about your clean code

#174

Post by james_smith_007 » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 12:48 AM UTC

Bullshit

Re: Nobody cares about your clean code

#175

Post by tmaly » Thu, Apr 29, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

zelon88 wrote: post #12

I think it's ironic that the author claims that clean code is....... Package your code down into small, atomic and reusable units Follow the single responsibility principle Use frameworks and libraries to avoid reinventing the wheel Whatever language you pick, don’t pick PHP These are best practices. It is possible to follow every one of those rules and still have a pile of broken, insecure, garbage code. Likewise yo…

This gave me a thought just now. When future changes are needed to a piece of software, these are usually driven by the business side.

If the original developers have moved on, and the current developers do not have a good handle on the software, there could be some troubles making changes.

What if we approach the problem by structuring the code and choosing names to better reflect the business terminology. Make it such that a business person could understand the software at high level.

Then years later, it becomes much easier for a new set of developers work with the business side to make enhancements and changes.

Re: Nobody cares about your clean code

#176

Post by kgilpin » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 11:13 AM UTC

What are the odds this is a single developer code base? It’s ok to have a mess, when it’s your mess. It’s other people’s messes that are the problem.

Re: Nobody cares about your clean code

#177

Post by mbrodersen » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:19 AM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #165

mbrodersen wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prototype in C++ all the time. And then refactor it to production code if it makes sense. Switching between languages seems like a waste of time to me.

Only if you don't know any other languages or the domain is well-known. Python is significantly more productive in the short term.

I can program in Assembler, C, Java, C#, JavaScript, Typescript, Ruby, Haskell etc. And there is zero empirical evidence that Python is “significantly” more productive in the short term. My guess is that it is only true if you don’t have much experience in any other languages.