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India’s second wave

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Re: India’s second wave

#171

Post by dredmorbius »

petre wrote: post #118
graeme wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Atlantic Canada and we absolutely controlled it. So did Australia and New Zealand.

Yes, mostly islands or places with low population density. The outlier is Vietnam.

Mainland countries of Laos, Cambodia, Thailand (though that's now changing). Much of Africa, nominally, though I suspect that's seriously underreported. Sevaral of these are densely populated.

Island territories are clearly easier to control movement to and from, but that is not the ony factor.

And, of course, China. Again, if reports are to be believed.

Re: India’s second wave

#172

Post by ryandrake »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #81
qart wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The virus does not care what you consider misguided. Make all the excuses you want, but crowds lead to spreading of airborne diseases.

The virus may spread in whatever way it does, but what public-health measures are to be used to respond to it, have to have some kind of mandate from the population. Already in several countries the authorities have chosen not to impose tighter restrictions on gatherings because the population has shown that it would flaunt them. In that case, public-health officials have to change their messaging to e.g. encouraging…

If only there were some way to punish people who violate government mandated measures. Like, I don't know, maybe we could dress some people up with a uniform and badge, and give them the authority to stop violators and "fine" or "incarcerate" them. Some kind of "justice system" or something. I don't know, this is a new invention I'm coming up with on the fly.

We had this problem in the USA, too. All these "mandates" flying around, and governments congratulating themselves over their stay-at-home "orders", yet very little to nothing in the way of enforcement. We seem to be able to enforce drunk driving and seatbelt laws, but when it comes to masks and preventing gatherings, we're flummoxed! Suddenly, nobody knows how to enforce the rules anymore!

Re: India’s second wave

#173

Post by megous »

hesarenu wrote: post #120

Wearing mask might just delay getting the infection. I wore mask all the time, wfh and go out only for groceries, still got infected. And when the CM gets Covid a second time after vaccination anyone can get it even with mask or vaccination.

You can increase your chances with a respirator. But finding a good quality one, certified with a proper standard (that doesn't just cover dust protection like KN95), verifying the certificate with certification company, and hoping it's still not a nice looking fake, one with some helping features that makes making the proper seal easier (like memory foam pad around the nose, or some rubber lining), best with a head band so that you can make it make seal better, is just way too hard, without spending a ton of money.

And that ton of money may not be worth it if you're young enough, and lucky.

I used 3 kinds so far, one was KN95 and just not sealing at all. Probably not much better than a typical "surgical mask", maybe even worse.

Other was marked "FFP3", but without a certification that I could find independently. Much better seal with memory foam around nose, and an ear bands that can be connected behind your had. That one at least felt useful. ;)

The last one is the most expensive so far, with an independently verifiable "FFP3" certificate, and a rubber lining for better seal with a proper headband. That one should be the best on paper. I have not used it yet.

Anyway, if you look at independent tests of random protection equipment that's sold on the market and people buy, sometimes it doesn't even meet the stated specs. That's not encouraging either.

I find navigating all this kinda tough, especially with some sellers proudly showing certificates which are obviously for something else than what they're selling, or blurring some information on the certificate, sometimes including the model information, lol.

(That is for the use case of actually protecting yourself from airborne particles in risky situations, not just "your mask, my mask" thing sibling posters write about)

Re: India’s second wave

#174

Post by maxerickson »

grecy wrote: post #159
supernovae wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is why we call ourselves democracies and speak as "lockdowns hurt poor people very badly" In a representative democracy, you wouldn't lock down and force people to starve - you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. locking down isn't why poor people hurt, locking down and doing nothing to feed them does. It's like this pand…

Canada, Australia & New Zealand (and I'm sure many other countries) have done an excellent job providing money to people who are stuck at home because they can't go to work. Here in Canada it was $500/week for 28 weeks, then you moved onto a different scheme if you still needed support. Everyone who needed it go it. We have not been desperately waiting for a pittance of $1200. Be careful not to generalize that all de…

The US paid a lot more than the $1200, in the form of unemployment supplements.

$600 a week at the beginning of the pandemic through July and then $300 a week this year, in addition to a second $2000 payment that went out to more than furloughed or unemployed people.

Re: India’s second wave

#175

Post by cryptoz »

MiSeRyDeee wrote: post #170
grecy wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada, Australia & New Zealand (and I'm sure many other countries) have done an excellent job providing money to people who are stuck at home because they can't go to work. Here in Canada it was $500/week for 28 weeks, then you moved onto a different scheme if you still needed support. Everyone who needed it go it. We have not been desperately waiting for a pittance of $1200. Be careful not to generalize that all de…

You realize that the stimulus check comes with a cost right? You almost sound like government can just give arbitrary money to citizens but isn't willing to do so.

The cost of not doing stimulus is much much higher than the cost of doing it, though.

Re: India’s second wave

#176

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

qart wrote: post #25

Lockdowns hurt poor people very badly; they need to earn to survive. All the more reason everyone should mask up. And yet, most people stopped masking months ago. Crowds are as bad as they were in 2019. On top of that, doctors here have created a craze for remdesivir, resulting in a blackmarket for it. The central and state governments have mismanaged plenty of things. While they deserve their share of blame, the ord…

> All the more reason everyone should mask up

Not just mask up, but do it with proper masks. Majority wear cloth masks in the country if at all they do because they were the ones which were available widely(affordable) during the first wave and that there were some data to suggest it's better than nothing.

But many of those masks have worn out after repeated washing, I'm having a hard time making people switch to proper masks as they are not comfortable with them and naturally mask prices are starting to skyrocket again.

Proper masks needs to be distributed through the PDS (Public Distribution System), During first wave cloth mask was distributed through that in my state.

Then of course there's this,

> Chin-mask

Re: India’s second wave

#177

Post by supernovae »

alex_smart wrote: post #163
supernovae wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't get is why we call ourselves democracies and speak as "lockdowns hurt poor people very badly" In a representative democracy, you wouldn't lock down and force people to starve - you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. locking down isn't why poor people hurt, locking down and doing nothing to feed them does. It's like this pand…

>In a representative democracy, you wouldn't lock down and force people to starve - you would lock down and provide income/food/capabilities for people to live regardless of their social/economic status. I didn't realize that being a rich country with a developed economy was a pre-requisite to being a representative democracy.

It's not... in fact, I'd say other democracies with less emphasis on wealth at all cost, do it much better.

Re: India’s second wave

#178

Post by nielsbot »

maxerickson wrote: post #174
grecy wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada, Australia & New Zealand (and I'm sure many other countries) have done an excellent job providing money to people who are stuck at home because they can't go to work. Here in Canada it was $500/week for 28 weeks, then you moved onto a different scheme if you still needed support. Everyone who needed it go it. We have not been desperately waiting for a pittance of $1200. Be careful not to generalize that all de…

The US paid a lot more than the $1200, in the form of unemployment supplements. $600 a week at the beginning of the pandemic through July and then $300 a week this year, in addition to a second $2000 payment that went out to more than furloughed or unemployed people.

How does it compare to France, Denmark and the UK though?

Re: India’s second wave

#180

Post by supernovae »

maxerickson wrote: post #174
grecy wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada, Australia & New Zealand (and I'm sure many other countries) have done an excellent job providing money to people who are stuck at home because they can't go to work. Here in Canada it was $500/week for 28 weeks, then you moved onto a different scheme if you still needed support. Everyone who needed it go it. We have not been desperately waiting for a pittance of $1200. Be careful not to generalize that all de…

The US paid a lot more than the $1200, in the form of unemployment supplements. $600 a week at the beginning of the pandemic through July and then $300 a week this year, in addition to a second $2000 payment that went out to more than furloughed or unemployed people.

These numbers don't mean much on their own.

Sure, if you live with mom and pop and you got laid off from a job and had a place to fall back onto, yippee

If you live in pretty much any major city and you're the breadwinner then it doesn't cover rent/mortgage.

We froze foreclosures, so there are estimated millions pending. Unemployment is still in pre-pandemic numbers - all though improving.

I think our reliance on "job" to live is problematic when a virus doesn't care about the societal ramifications of a job.

I think we should talk more broader UBI programs and talk about what countries did that worked... do a huge retrospective and make things better for the future.

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