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34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

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Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#171

Post by ironmagma »

Alupis wrote: post #13
User23 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if an employer isn't willing to let employees do a job remotely after having had a year to see that they're perfectly capable of doing so, they clearly have no attachment to their employees.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

My CEO sent out a company wide email admitting we had succeeded in becoming a remote company, and proceeded to tell us remote work is not an option going forward. So... no.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#172

Post by Closi »

mulmen wrote: post #134
Closi wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A friend of mine is in software sales. She doesn't need to physically be in an office ever. There are a lot of office jobs that can be done remotely. Lots of things can be done remotely, but that also doesn't mean that they are all done as well remotely. To counter your example about software sales - A few months ago I conducted an RFP process for some software, and the company that scored the lowest was the compan…

When she was in the office she was covering the southwest US from Seattle. Visiting a customer site for a sales meeting is not the same as "working remotely". She does not need to go into the corporate HQ every day to do software sales. Yes, she did and will in the future visit customer sites. > Only one example, but I think for most jobs something is often lost by having no physical presence and no in-person collabo…

> Sure but this ignores benefits. The question is if remote work is a net negative, in terms of utility.

And the obvious answer is that for some jobs it is, and for some jobs it isn't. There isn't a hard and fast rule here, and like I say it depends on the software you are selling. You probably aren't going to sell and implement a $20m ERP job entirely remotely, but on the other hand you aren't going to be driving around and doing customer visits for a $50 a month SaaS contract.

But in the absence of any hard-data, my gut strongly tells me that working from home is a net negative for most jobs and most people. My team has gone back to the office now and our ability to get stuff done is just rocketing.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#173

Post by eptcyka »

benbristow wrote: post #26
Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

Why is it rude to send a PM but not rude to demand attention via physical presence?

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#174

Post by balherian »

Kluny wrote: post #126
User23 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if an employer isn't willing to let employees do a job remotely after having had a year to see that they're perfectly capable of doing so, they clearly have no attachment to their employees.

My spouse is a workforce analyst. She schedules work packages for a large government agency. She's responsible for the workloads of about 150 people. All have been working from home for a full year, and yes, they are quite capable of doing it. However, overall productivity is down 30%. Since they have good data, she can clearly see which people are close to their normal productivity even when working from home, and w…

Is there data that indicates that remote work is worse just because of the pandemic, or under ideal conditions, pre covid did remote work stats also indicate worse performance.

Without further information i do not understand how this can be disambiguated.

Myself, after a year of remote, i see pros/cons, but the overall situation of a pandemic is just soul crushing.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#176

Post by maxharris »

Alupis wrote: post #13
User23 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if an employer isn't willing to let employees do a job remotely after having had a year to see that they're perfectly capable of doing so, they clearly have no attachment to their employees.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely

Given the fact that forklift operators have been driving forklifts remotely during the pandemic, this is not hard to imagine at all: the present reality is that warehouses are being managed remotely. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-54431056

In addition to this, there are now many companies in the warehouse robotics space, all of whom are more than happy to provide robots that automate most of the productive functions of warehouses. For example, there are automated guide vehicles (AGVs) that move inventory around the warehouse, automated storage and retrieval systems (AS/RS) that manage inventory, store and retrieve goods on demand. In addition, there are collaborative robots or "cobots" that help the few employees you still actually need on site. Finally, there are articulated robot arms that pick, pack and palletize goods. Almost all of these can managed and operated remotely, all at a lower total cost than purely manual labor could achieve.

Given the fact that warehouses are the perfect example of how the working world is going permanently remote, I'm not sure how your marketing example is any better. If you want to bounce ideas off of another person in real-time, I don't understand why the same thing can't be done at a much lower cost on a call. After all, that's how everyone has been doing it for over a year now!

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#177

Post by ianai »

Dominisi wrote: post #149

For me, its all about the commute. Just do the math. 1-Hour commute time both ways: 21.8 Days a year you are spending commuting to/from work. 3-fucking-weeks of time, poof, gone. I'll get my social interaction else where for 3 weeks of my life back. Thanks.

Yes and if you have a disagreement with said external friends it is highly unlikely to affect your professional life.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#178

Post by mym1990 »

Dominisi wrote: post #149

For me, its all about the commute. Just do the math. 1-Hour commute time both ways: 21.8 Days a year you are spending commuting to/from work. 3-fucking-weeks of time, poof, gone. I'll get my social interaction else where for 3 weeks of my life back. Thanks.

While commuting is time-inefficient activity, if you let all 22 days a year disappear...thats on you. There are plenty of things to do in a car ride, train ride, bus ride, walk that are not 'poof, gone' uses of time.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#179

Post by mulmen »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #137
mulmen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

34% being unwilling to work in offices does not imply not the 66% prefer to work in offices. It is entirely possible (however unlikely) that 100% of people prefer to work remotely but that 34% demand it. You just can't infer anything about the preferences of the 66% based on the preferences of the 34%. Some jobs have to be done in person, sure. But some jobs don't. Personally the extra two hours a day and reduced str…

Have you considered that the reason why you aren't missing face-to-face meetings is because everyone is forced to do full time remote? My team is really dreading the move to back to office, but I couldn't be happier. I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I…

My team had two remote people before the pandemic and my company has global offices so including remote workers is already something we understand.

I fully expect to have to go in to the office one or two days a week but the logistics are easier with remote meetings. There's no need to find an empty room, I don't have to take time to walk to your floor, etc.

> I get the nudge I need in the mornings to hit the gym again, I get cheap and healthy food during lunch with no effort on my part. And I get to see and interact with people who don't work in my team and I haven't had any work reason to interact with again.

These are personal problems. I have been exercising more while WFH because I have more time. You can't expect your coworkers to change their lives because you get a personal time-management or networking benefit.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#180

Post by incrudible »

aroundtown wrote: post #132

Give me a dedicated office with a door that can shut, allow me to commute during off-peak rush hours, and raise my pay or shorten my work hours for the same rate... then we will talk about coming back in. Currently: I have an dedicated office at home, I can shut my door and work when I need to be distraction free. I don't have my head pinched by headphones for hours, and I can work in silence like I prefer. No cowork…

> Give me a dedicated office with a door that can shut, allow me to commute during off-peak rush hours, and raise my pay or shorten my work hours for the same rate... then we will talk about coming back in.

If you can talk like that post-pandemic, why couldn't you walk like that pre-pandemic? You could've had a remote job then, too.

I do like remote work, but it's not all upsides. If there's a big shift to remote work, it will suppress wages because now you can hire from across the country, where living expenses are low.

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