Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Deno Company

deno.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 446 posts

Re: The Deno Company

#171

Post by rhencke »

breck wrote: post #149
nerdponx wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably a stupid question, but is AGPL/commercial dual-licensing a viable option for something like this? Instead of relying on goodwill donations & maybe assigning 1-2 devs from major corporations, just explicitly charge them money if they refuse to ship source code to end-users.

I would say no. I think they should go public domain, as that's the future. One of the funniest/best business models out there is SQlite ( https://sqlite.org/copyright.html ). They give it away to the public domain, but some lawyers wrongly claim that that is not enough, so they will "sell" you a warranty asserting it is all public domain.

Those lawyers are correct.

Not all jurisdictions of the world legally recognize the concept of 'public domain'.

Re: The Deno Company

#172

Post by otde »

ivan888 wrote: post #155
40four wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, your comment is way off topic, and nothing to do with discussing The Deno Company, and what it means for the Deno ecosystem. Not to mention, this is a very worn out, tired complaint that's been talked about ad nauseam. Reading angry swipes at web developers is not very interesting. Ok, you're not a web developer. So you stick to what pays the bills, why would you learn Node or Typescript? Same for web d…

I think you took the wrong tone from the parent comment; it sounds like this person was genuinely interested in sparking a real conversation about how people feel about the environment that they spend time in, and whether that could have dramatically shifted based on what they decided to or had to learn

I feel like if this person was interested in “sparking a conversation,” they wouldn’t open said conversation with “I hate how bloated web abstractions are, but I guess they’re popular for some reason,” with the exact same digs at electron that have been rehashed in every HN comment section.

I agree, to be clear — I use many of said abstractions, and they’re often quite bloated and everything else this person is complaining about. This just doesn’t strike me as someone who’s asking for insight; it’s just complaining, and it’s fine to point that out.

Re: The Deno Company

#173

Post by kwertyoowiyop »

breck wrote: post #149
nerdponx wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably a stupid question, but is AGPL/commercial dual-licensing a viable option for something like this? Instead of relying on goodwill donations & maybe assigning 1-2 devs from major corporations, just explicitly charge them money if they refuse to ship source code to end-users.

I would say no. I think they should go public domain, as that's the future. One of the funniest/best business models out there is SQlite ( https://sqlite.org/copyright.html ). They give it away to the public domain, but some lawyers wrongly claim that that is not enough, so they will "sell" you a warranty asserting it is all public domain.

Patent/copyright insurance? Sounds good, and not difficult to get a check written for, considering how much is spent on the service of open-source scanning.

Re: The Deno Company

#174

Post by elisee »

iends wrote: post #48
elisee wrote: post #15

Happy to see Deno get some financial backing! I've been building my new multiplayer games website [1] with Deno over the last 4 months and apart from some minor growing pains, it's been a joy to use. The lack of unnecessary package management, and the TypeScript-by-default approach makes Web dev much nicer. We're also using TypeScript on the client-side, relying on VSCode for error reporting. We use sucrase to strip…

https://sparks.land doesn't load properly on mobile (iOS, Firefox)

Ah thanks for the heads up. It requires WebGL 2 which isn't yet in iOS's Web engine I believe? And IIRC all browsers have to use it on iOS. It does work on Android.

Re: The Deno Company

#175

Post by 40four »

55555 wrote: post #163
40four wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, your comment is way off topic, and nothing to do with discussing The Deno Company, and what it means for the Deno ecosystem. Not to mention, this is a very worn out, tired complaint that's been talked about ad nauseam. Reading angry swipes at web developers is not very interesting. Ok, you're not a web developer. So you stick to what pays the bills, why would you learn Node or Typescript? Same for web d…

When I read the parent comment I didn't infer any of the spite you seem to have felt. It's an interesting question, rephrased: "Is this the best way forward? Or is it only better because people don't need to learn a new language? What are the advantages and disadvantages? Will my current approach to development go out of fashion?"

Fair enough, maybe I misinterpreted. But things like "Or if it just exists because JavaScript developers don’t want to learn something new", are very divisive. As if there is something different about Javascript developers that make them lazy, and C programmers are infinitely curious and learn everything new they can.

Edit:

I don't believe one way or the other 'better' technically speaking. Usually the 'best' way forward is the one you have the most skill in. So yes, the one you don't need to learn a new language. Tools like Deno are designed for web developers. Just because they are popular and you hear about them a lot doesn't mean someone else's way of doing things it threatened.

Re: The Deno Company

#176

Post by lucacasonato »

threatofrain wrote: post #147
dangoor wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many companies would just never touch an AGPL package, and while there are other languages out there with commercial licenses (e.g. Delphi), those are not nearly as mainstream as the open & freely available ones. Deno is competing against Node.js, which is MIT-licensed. Deno is arguably better, but it would have to be _so much better_ to get people to even give it a second look if it was commercial.

Unfortunately Deno gave up on their most unique differentiator, the TS [runtime].

No we didn't?! Where did you get this info from? Deno is made to work with TypeScript out of the box. The Deno Standard Library is written in TypeScript: https://deno.land/std. Most userland modules are TypeScript too.

Re: The Deno Company

#177

Post by [deleted] »

munro wrote: post #95

I know this sounds crazy on the surface level, but I really wish I could do data engineering and machine learning with TypeScript instead of Python. TypeScript's type system is so good, it makes refactoring large projects so easy. Python's typing module leaves a lot to be desired, and on top of that PyCharm doesn't properly support everything. Perhaps I should switch to VSCode--but I do like IntelliJ, and it works re…

[deleted]

Re: The Deno Company

#178

Post by kevincox »

threatofrain wrote: post #139
dgellow wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And because web app publishers have full control. If I have a web application, I can update it right now and it will be updated for ALL my users at the same time. No store policies bullshit, no need to somehow notify users that a new version has to be downloaded and installed, no fragmentation of your user base because half of your customers stay at an old version due to whatever reasons out of your reach.

But you don’t get full control, and that’s why people go native. Because platforms rightly distrust web apps. This will likely be true for a long time as security becomes a bigger deal everyday.

Most "modern" platforms distrust native apps too. (Android, iOS and increasingly macOS, Windows and even Linux)

This is one of the main reason that I often prefer web apps. (my preference obviously depends on the use case) I would much rather run a random company's messaging/video chat/whatever app inside my browser with strong sandboxing. Because browsers have truly accepted that applications should be considered malicious by default.

Re: The Deno Company

#179

Post by celeritascelery »

oblio wrote: post #87
celeritascelery wrote: post #85

> Many are more familiar with the Chrome DevTools console than they are with a Unix command-line prompt. More familiar with WebSockets than BSD sockets, MDN than man pages. Bash and Zsh scripts calling into native code will never go away. But JavaScript and TypeScript scripts calling into WebAssembly code will be increasingly common. Many developers, we think, prefer web-first abstraction layers. Every time I read so…

> Or if it just exists because JavaScript developers don’t want to learn something new. It's probably a big reason. But if you think about it from the other angle... you don't want to learn Javascript, which would be new to you :-)

Touché. I will admit I am resistant to learning JS. Part of this is that it seems like no one actually "likes" to program in it, they just have to because it is so ubiquitous. But I guess that just goes back to the Bjarne Stroustrup quote: "There are two kinds of programming languages: The ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses."

Re: The Deno Company

#180

Post by threatofrain »

dgellow wrote: post #152
threatofrain wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you don’t get full control, and that’s why people go native. Because platforms rightly distrust web apps. This will likely be true for a long time as security becomes a bigger deal everyday.

You're talking about control of the hardware/filesystem/etc, I'm talking about control of the application itself.

You're talking about the relationship between publisher and platform, and how there are web wins in the direction of managing and updating apps.

But those wins must also be balanced with the loss of control due to those same platforms distrusting your app. Now your app, for all the wins it's going to achieve on maintenance and updating, is also going to take hits from its inability to do things that other people take for granted on native apps.

They are part of the same story of balancing pros and cons.

Post reply on HN