Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Waste of Daylight

nms.ac.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 251 posts

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#171

Post by TuringTest »

eru wrote: post #162
richrichardsson wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the safe and conservative way to do that is to use today's winter time all year round What are the points that lead you to this conclusion? Personally I'd prefer if DST was abolished by staying on Summer Time permanently, as I dislike the lack of light in the evening, and couldn't care less about the dark mornings, but mine is a purely selfish reasoning.

Just get up earlier? Moving around what we call the hours of the day doesn't change anything real.

Unfortunately, business have a habit of maintaining the same opening schedules all year long, which means they open earlier in summer and later in winter (relative to the sun).

You don't change the sun, but changing own habits relative to the clock is not an option for the majority of people - so if the clock changes, society follows.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#172

Post by arethuza »

bloak wrote: post #155
arethuza wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I vastly prefer more light in the evenings" Strong agreement - the clocks going forward in the spring pretty much marks the time here in Scotland where you can start doing things outdoors in the evenings during the week - also helps that the weather usually starts being less miserable about this time as well.

This comment perhaps illustrates the most likely explanation of why people keep on suggesting we should have permanent "summer time" rather than permanent "winter time": they genuinely believe or subsconsciously imagine that the government can legislate for better weather. Unfortunately, here in England, there is no flexibility for adjusting our timetables in the winter: the length of the school day is roughly equal…

"that the government can legislate for better weather"

That's not what I meant at all!

I want that extra hour of light in the evenings - which makes a big difference here in April. The fact that this happens to occur at the time when the weather starts improving adds to the desire to actually get outside more in the evenings. Nobody thinks that the change to BST causes the better weather :-|

Edit: And anyway - I actually prefer the system as it currently is.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#173

Post by rjmunro »

dbatten wrote: post #168
josephg wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might not be an option for you, but have you considered changing your working hours? The sun doesn't care how your clock is set. There is the same amount of sunlight in any given day. If your problem is that your working day is too early or too late in the day, maybe thats what should be changed - not everybody's clocks.

I can't speak for the other commenter, but personally, yes, I have changed my working hours to be as early as I feel is reasonable. I generally work from 7:00 AM until 4:00 PM. I feel that shifting any more than that would start to cause problems with not having enough working hours overlapping with coworkers to facilitate meetings and what not. (And it's worth pointing out that some people don't have this luxury. St…

You should campaign for schools to start earlier, not for change to how we measure time. You could even campaign that in the part of the year known as "Daylight savings time" schools could open earlier still (there's nothing preventing schools starting at different times in different parts of the year).

Midday should be the hour when the sun is highest in your timezone, and should stay there all year round.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#174

Post by rjmunro »

bloak wrote: post #155
arethuza wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I vastly prefer more light in the evenings" Strong agreement - the clocks going forward in the spring pretty much marks the time here in Scotland where you can start doing things outdoors in the evenings during the week - also helps that the weather usually starts being less miserable about this time as well.

This comment perhaps illustrates the most likely explanation of why people keep on suggesting we should have permanent "summer time" rather than permanent "winter time": they genuinely believe or subsconsciously imagine that the government can legislate for better weather. Unfortunately, here in England, there is no flexibility for adjusting our timetables in the winter: the length of the school day is roughly equal…

The clock time that schools start and end at doesn't have to be fixed for the whole year. The clock time could stay at GMT, and schools could open earlier, maybe also slightly longer for some parts of the year. Businesses could follow school opening times.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#175

Post by thepete2 »

rjmunro wrote: post #169

Moving around what we call the hours of the day is a really stupid way to change habits. Why not do this for other unit's of measurement? People travel at 70mph on highways, have accidents and die. Lets make 1 mile only 1200m instead of 1600m, now when the speed limit is 70mph, people will really be travelling at 84kph instead of 112kph, so less will die. It's utterly absurd. Just post a 50mph limit. If you want peop…

Exactly. The right way to go about it would be changing standard business hours (and school, etc.) twice a year.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#176

Post by skrebbel »

8fingerlouie wrote: post #152
Jtsummers wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was gifted some Philips Hue lights a few years ago. I set one up on my nightstand to turn on at sunrise (actually earlier in the winter, sunrise is the latest I want it set to). It's a much more pleasant way to wake up (with it fading in over 10 minutes or so) than an actual alarm clock. Of course, it can't travel with you but it's not a bad option for the home.

Scandinavian here, i'll pass :) Most of June the sun rises from 4:30 to 4:50, and it's not until late august it rises around 6am again. Sunset is between 9pm and 10pm, civil twilight lasts until 3:42am, and the sun never goes below 12 degrees. From November to February it doesn't rise until 8am. (and sets around 4pm, astronomical twilight around 6pm) We have a large roof window that allows morning sunlight to enter o…

My theory is that most people who write on HN about waking up at sunrise (it's a common theme) live in the US, much of which is substantially closer to the equator than Northern and Central Europe.

Nice mild weather with sane sunrise/sunset times all year round is definitely on the list of things I envy about the SF Bay Area.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#177

Post by matthewdgreen »

rjmunro wrote: post #173
dbatten wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for the other commenter, but personally, yes, I have changed my working hours to be as early as I feel is reasonable. I generally work from 7:00 AM until 4:00 PM. I feel that shifting any more than that would start to cause problems with not having enough working hours overlapping with coworkers to facilitate meetings and what not. (And it's worth pointing out that some people don't have this luxury. St…

You should campaign for schools to start earlier, not for change to how we measure time. You could even campaign that in the part of the year known as "Daylight savings time" schools could open earlier still (there's nothing preventing schools starting at different times in different parts of the year). Midday should be the hour when the sun is highest in your timezone, and should stay there all year round.

>You should campaign for schools to start earlier, not for change to how we measure time.

For people who live on fixed schedules (AKA large swaths of society), changing the clock is how you campaign for schools/work/recreational organizations to start earlier. It is vastly more effective than solving the huge coordination problem of trying to get these independent organizations to each separately change their interlocking schedules.

On the flipside, it (1) seems vaguely annoying to a minority of people who have more flexibility in their schedules and don't need this (but that same flexibility should insulate them from any negative effects) and (2) has some random and irrelevant effect on the location of the sun in the sky at different clock times.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#178

Post by dsego »

e12e wrote: post #97
derefr wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Construction men working in the dark for an hour? What do they want, bankers hours? Presumably, they want their schedule moved around so they can see what they're doing. There's no reason that the clock itself needs to change for that, though. Just unions forcing employers into a "9-5 in summer, 10-6 in winter" schedule would work fine.

I agree in principle - but assuming that school ends at 5, that means it'd be problematic picking up/being home in time for your kids in winter becomes an issue. That could be solved by summer/winter schedule being recommended across industries - but then you might end up back with an effective DST anyway - forcing new sleeping patterns in the shift...

Due to lack of school buildings in a lot of places in my country we have school in two shifts. These rotate, one week from 8 to 13:30 and the next 14-19:30. As a kid I had to walk around 30min to and from school, carrying a small torch when it was dark. Just to give you some perspective.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#179

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

josephg wrote: post #154
ZoomZoomZoom wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sunlight affects the quality of life directly: 1 hour of more/less natural light can be felt immediately. Moreover, our society structured in a way where most of the social life happens after work or school, the transition from light to dark falls on personal time in most cases. This is why people have such strong opinions on the matter. Speaking for myself, having lived through summer time/winter time schedule aroun…

This might not be an option for you, but have you considered changing your working hours? The sun doesn't care how your clock is set. There is the same amount of sunlight in any given day. If your problem is that your working day is too early or too late in the day, maybe thats what should be changed - not everybody's clocks.

>This might not be an option for you, but have you considered changing your working hours?

This is irrelevant, as I'd like to have more chance to enjoy the sunset in a park in a company, not just by myself. I also would like my children to have at least an hour of the sun light after school, not before, when it absolutely doesn't matter as they are still groggy and can't really enjoy it. What I was trying to convey in my other comments, this is not strictly a personal issue.

Re: The Waste of Daylight

#180

Post by da_big_ghey »

TuringTest wrote: post #171
eru wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just get up earlier? Moving around what we call the hours of the day doesn't change anything real.

Unfortunately, business have a habit of maintaining the same opening schedules all year long, which means they open earlier in summer and later in winter (relative to the sun). You don't change the sun, but changing own habits relative to the clock is not an option for the majority of people - so if the clock changes, society follows.

This is why we want normal time not daylight delay. This solution wake up and have about two hours to eat breakfast, get dressed, etc. before day starts with earnest.
Post reply on HN