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Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

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Re: Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

#171

Post by sandworm101 »

behnamoh wrote: post #165
sandworm101 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arthur C. Clarke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Billion_Names_of_God "overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out." Eventually we will have calculated all the necessary derivations and the universe will come to an end.

> Eventually we will have calculated all the necessary derivations and the universe will come to an end. I'm sorry I didn't understand this. Could you explain?

The parent postulates that a "Nakamoto" type 2 civilization will convert all the energy of its star into heat doing bitcoin calculations. Such a star would disappear from visual light (Dyson sphere stuff). The Clarke story is about a religion that uses a computer to calculate all the names of god, bringing about the end of the universe. The story ends with stars disappearing. Both have big computers doing math that results in stars disappearing from the sky.

The joke is that rather than calculating the names of god, maybe we will end the universe by finally getting to the end of bitcoin calculations.

Re: Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

#172

Post by cwkoss »

lainsoykaf wrote: post #169
trixie_ wrote: post #63

Idea to solve the crypto energy problem - sell space heaters as dual purpose crypto miners. People need space heaters. They buy them, but they also mine crypto (as a free byproduct of the space heating). The number of crypto mining space heaters out there dilute the value of dedicated mining so much that people don't bother with it anymore. Even buying the space heater to make money from mining crypto doesn't make th…

This can't work because it just raises the efficiency of mining. That means mining will become cheaper. That means your reward is higher. That means you can mine more for the same money. That means every miner does that, increasing the part of the heat that's wasted. In the end, the exact same amount will be 'wasted' as before.

Consumers that are already using (electric) space heaters are already paying $X/mo in electricity.

If they are getting value out of a bitcoin-mining space heater, it is justified to run at any time you want heat, because by getting a BTC rebate of any amount would make it cheaper to run than a space heater.

If enough miners are mining for the purpose of heat, it will push non-heat miners out of the market, because the heat-miners are rationally willing to mine at any price (any 'rebate' on expected electricity->heat costs is useful), whereas the non-heat miners can only rationally mine when btc reward exceeds electricity cost.

(We are a LOOONG way from the majority of miners using the heat, but just wanted to point out there is a hypothetical future where the market could eliminate heat-wasted mining)

Re: Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

#173

Post by silentsea90 »

bruiseralmighty wrote: post #156

Isn't the real issue here one of incentives? BTC is of obvious criminal use in regards to laundering money and trading in blackmarket goods and services, but clearly there is a much broader appeal to more mainstream use as well. Activists, journalists, dissidents all need to have lines of cash and stores of value that cannot be taken down with one phone call to Chase bank. For someone in a relatively free Western cou…

Trillions of dollars get printed diluting your wealth and you have a problem with the hardest form of wealth known to man. I boldly predict that you or your progeny (depending on your age) will realize in 10 years that you should have bought BTC. I encourage you to research why non money launderers like Jack Dorsey, Elon etc. are buying BTC.

Re: Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

#174

Post by silentsea90 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #149
Jonnax wrote: post #5

How does the network protocol of bitcoin work? Would governments be able to block it? Can it be DDoS-ed?

> Would governments be able to block it? Deep packet inspect the network, raid current users and miners, then degrade the network for a few months for everyone. After that, random enforcement. Incentivise by letting police privately seize Bitcoin from the populace. The idea that a protocol is immune to state violence because it can be sneaky is absurd.

I think the slowness of BTC adoption and growth are its strength. Within a decade, BTC investors will reach the highest offices of decision making bodies, and will be wealthy enough to shape the future of policy

Re: Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

#175

Post by silentsea90 »

Jonnax wrote: post #5

How does the network protocol of bitcoin work? Would governments be able to block it? Can it be DDoS-ed?

The slowness of BTC adoption and growth are its strength. Within a decade, BTC investors will reach the highest offices of decision making bodies, and will be wealthy enough to shape the future of policy. States bodies will adapt not compete, similar to how they've adapted to the internet.

Re: Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

#176

Post by karmakaze »

_Microft wrote: post #57

We should define something like a "Nakamoto scale" . A Nakamoto Type I civilization would be one that converts all available power of a planet into waste heat and funny numbers, a Nakamoto Type II civilization does that with all the power output of a star and so on... basically the Kardashev scale [0] but with the restriction that useful output SHOULD NOT be produced [1]. Edit: lowered requirement level from MUST NOT…

Love "Universal Paperclips"--'completed' it multiple times in one session. It's the core game without the fluff, uselessness at its best. You've been warned:

[0] https://www.decisionproblem.com/paperclips/

Re: Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

#177

Post by krapp »

blondie9x wrote: post #159
krapp wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire purpose of cryptocurrencies that they and their economies cannot be regulated by any government. A regulated cryptocurrency is just fiat with more steps and a contradiction in terms.

What about mining? We regulate gold / silver mining. Why not crypto mining? It consumes more energy than the gold or silver mining industries. https://coincentral.com/bitcoin-mining-trumps-gold-mining-en...

That's not going to stop organized crime or states that want to leverage influence over Bitcoin. Regulating the mining of physical materials is easier because governments can directly control the mines and regulate shipping and industries, etc. But even then, mining is full of cartels, slavery and blood money.

Unfortunately, I think the only thing that's going to stop Bitcoin mining is the laws of physics.

Re: Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

#178

Post by ArkanExplorer »

blondie9x wrote: post #157
_Microft wrote: post #57

We should define something like a "Nakamoto scale" . A Nakamoto Type I civilization would be one that converts all available power of a planet into waste heat and funny numbers, a Nakamoto Type II civilization does that with all the power output of a star and so on... basically the Kardashev scale [0] but with the restriction that useful output SHOULD NOT be produced [1]. Edit: lowered requirement level from MUST NOT…

Can we please start regulating crypto currency mining? This is insane. I think it needs to be global mining regulation. Can the UN do anything else? If we start taking all the energy used to mine a given cryptocurrency it aggregates to more than most countries per cryptocurrency. Not ok. I know this is controversial but we have to at least debate this subject as we face an existential threat from climate change and y…

You regulate the fiat onroads.

If miners cannot sell their coins, they can't pay the electricity bills.

Bitcoin will always be around, but with sufficient fiat blockages the value plummets.

Governments should announce that people will have a year to sell all their coins (the price will tank immediately anyway), and then buying and selling of PoW coins will be banned.

Re: Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

#179

Post by ArkanExplorer »

aeturnum wrote: post #134

I think some of the furor over bitcoin power usage is overblown. It's true, as crypto folks say, that the power is doing "something." It's more that...a system where you will pay anyone who finds any cheap power source anywhere in the internet-connected world no matter how they get it is obviously going to have awful externalities. Even though most people will be reasonably ok about it, enough people we be shitty eno…

Its not just power usage - GPUs are essentially unavailable due to Ethereum mining right now, which has broader societal implications given the limited fab capacity. So we have a giant misallocation of energy, and a giant misallocation of computer hardware.

Trolley-bus and tram companies in my Eastern European city are increasing fare pricing due to electricity price increases - how much of that is due to increased demand from mining?

The very real, and very negative, implications of PoW mining are becoming apparent.

Re: Bitcoin miners in Abkhazia are causing blackouts in remote villages [video]

#180

Post by fredfoobar »

blondie9x wrote: post #157
_Microft wrote: post #57

We should define something like a "Nakamoto scale" . A Nakamoto Type I civilization would be one that converts all available power of a planet into waste heat and funny numbers, a Nakamoto Type II civilization does that with all the power output of a star and so on... basically the Kardashev scale [0] but with the restriction that useful output SHOULD NOT be produced [1]. Edit: lowered requirement level from MUST NOT…

Can we please start regulating crypto currency mining? This is insane. I think it needs to be global mining regulation. Can the UN do anything else? If we start taking all the energy used to mine a given cryptocurrency it aggregates to more than most countries per cryptocurrency. Not ok. I know this is controversial but we have to at least debate this subject as we face an existential threat from climate change and y…

Do you have any reason to feel so despondent without any real evidence? There's already plenty of people mining with renewable/stranded energy sources, all mining will head this way. My prediction is that the "energy consumption" arguments against bitcoin will disappear in 5 years.

People are gonna tell us (bitcoiners) that the USD is secured by the powerful military of US behind it and we're supposed to accept it as a positive, but if we say that we're going to use electricity to secure the network with nothing but math and computation, we're instantly hated by the same people. What gives?

How can you be ok with wars and threats of violence to enforce the value of a currency, but not computation and electricity? I just don't understand it.

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