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Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

wsj.com

171–180 of 381 posts

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#171

I for one love it when mouthy oncologists get picked to talk about epedemiology in the Journal. Next week, tune in for a sculptor's hot take on the Mars lander.

He cites Manaus as a positive example of the power of heard immunity, not only is he not an expert he doesn't seem to actually read the news.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointing out that someone is not an expert at something is not an ad hominem.

Arguing against someone's position by simply stating (truthfully or not) that they are not an expert is textbook ad hominem .

Perhaps it more closely resembles an appeal to authority or appeal to accomplishment.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#173
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Having lockdowns can get you back to the point where businesses can safely operate with community spread control measures (see e.g. Australia or Taiwan)." How do you explain Florida, not locked down, vs. California with some of the strictest lock downs in the country having similar rates of death/infection? It's even more of a puzzler for those pushing lockdowns since Florida has a population tilted way more in the…

If one football team got beat 8-0, and another football team got beat 9-1, should we really be spending time arguing about which team is better when they're both pretty obviously not very good?

It's not about teams, it's about attempting to evaluate the counterfactual. If the difference between the US and Australia is primarily due to lockdowns, you would expect to see areas with more lockdown do better than areas with less. Much better, to a degree that drowns out any noise, since the overall difference is so vast. And that really doesn't seem to be what we observe.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#174
post #140

I'm not sure how much stock I would put into this type of claim in an opinion article, but anecdotally, I've been tracking the daily new cases and percent positive in my area very closely for a while. Especially in the last couple of weeks the percent positive & new cases has fallen dramatically. Seemingly for no good reason. In my state, we are now consistently seeing percent positive less than 10%. After the holida…

Getting further away from Christmas/New Year's probably explains a lot of it.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is textbook ad hominem, and I think is against HN guidelines.

Pointing out that someone is not an expert at something is not an ad hominem.

It's not an informative comment criticizing the author's credentials. It a drive-by insult.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#176
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to remember that the positivity rate is a measure of how much testing you're doing, not a measure of how much virus is around. Unless you're reading articles about the politics of rapid tests or the like, you should mostly just ignore the pos rate, it doesn't tell you anything useful otherwise.

I'm reading numbers from my states department of health site, and they only report molecular tests. You are right percent positive, and even daily new cases, it's not a measure of how much virus is around, and should taken with a grain of salt. But they are some of the only metrics we have, and if you keep the caveats in mind, I don't agree that they aren't useful. What else would you suggest looking at? Deaths? In m…

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with the way all our numbers are heading. I just don't quite understand how it is that in the US we've come to latch onto the positivity rate as a meaningful measure of stuff. In the UK and Europe, they routinely report the R0 (...or other related measures), which is a zillion times more useful when thinking about how the pandemic is going.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#177

I for one love it when mouthy oncologists get picked to talk about epedemiology in the Journal. Next week, tune in for a sculptor's hot take on the Mars lander.

s/We'll have/I really really want/ These sadly arent the exclusive purvey of the journal. plenty of other dog-trainers and nightly consumer-news shows often feature what amounts to a thinly-veiled quarantine tantrum masquerading as insightful critique.

News firms in USA optimize for audience size. Most Americans would rather listen to Pollyanna bullshit than uncomfortable truth. So, the news firms mostly publish wishful thinking. According to some of these shallow beings, we were supposed to have "herd immunity" by last April. Here in the real world, it's still not clear that this concept is even possible with the covid virus.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#178
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty weird actually. The news desk for the WSJ is among the best out there. Their news stories tend to be really dry in a good way - full of facts and figures, with very little in the way of click bait hyperbole. Their subscriber model is all about business people who want the details and not opinion... Which then makes the opinion desk at the WSJ a real oddball. It's consistently right-leaning, sometimes to t…

Isn't that the point of Op-Ed sections, at the end of the day? It's always been a way for newspapers to host what's effectively a glorified collection of Medium posts. Even the New York Times' Opinion page is consistently partisan.

I'm not sure the New York Times is a good example here. It's definitely not just their opinion page that is partisan these days, and whilst this does seem to have gotten worse I'm not sure there was exactly a golden era - they seem to have always been particularly keen on pushing narratives.

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I love about the news right now is that they've perfected the alchemy of turning every holiday into its own news cycle. Gatherings feared... Experts fear another spike . No proof at all that holiday -> virulence, of course. You should try turning off the news for a bit.

What we do have is proof that increased gatherings lead to increased transmission. We have, I think, a pretty reasonable assumption that holidays lead to increased gatherings. So, a cautious assumption until data shows it's not accurate that "holidays lead to increased transmission" seems to me to be warranted. Have you seen data that shows holidays don't lead to increased transmission?

> a pretty reasonable assumption that holidays lead to increased gatherings

Not necessarily. They also removed one big set of gatherings: Work.

Workplaces and the commute to them are massive contributors. Many people are in (loose) contact with many more people at work than at a large Thanksgiving dinner, and contact tracing is a lot more effective for the Thanksgiving dinner (everyone there is a close contact) vs. work ("oh, but they were more than 1.5 meters apart, so it doesn't count" because you can't quarantine everyone in a 100+ people open plan office that you've been saturating with infectious aerosols for 8 hours).

Re: Opinion: We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April

#180
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume you have never been in Europe. There barely any borders to close and a lot of people live in one country and work in another. You can’t block that for a year. In Baarle Nassau in the Netherlands there is a store, and half of it is in the Netherlands and half of it is in Belgium. By the way, air travel has been ~0 for a year now. Unfortunately it has not in fact stopped the pandemic. Must be the no true lock…

Canada closed some of the internal borders between its provinces; something that has never happened before. Some road blocks, some of its based simply on the honour system. Here in Ontario, I cannot legally visit anywhere east of Quebec right now without quarantining on arrival for 2 weeks. And some remote communities are literally barricaded from entry.

Wow! No wonder Canada beat covid-19. Oh wait, they didn’t. But at least they are in the worst economic depression in decades.
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