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Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

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Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#171

Post by xemoka »

ACow_Adonis wrote: post #164
xemoka wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By asking them. You can't just ask an algorithm, it must be designed to show its own work. Credibility is another problem...

lol. sorry, but that reminds me of a skit by an Australian comedian: male guest: "now first of all, let me just start by saying I'm not racist..." female guest: "pfft..." host: "ah see you made a noise there, but a lot of people accuse him of being a racist, so I think it's very helpful to know that he actually isn't one..."

Right, like I said, credibility is a different problem. But at this point, we don't even get a lie from them, we get nothing. At least a lie can be checked and examined. There's nothing available at all currently.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#172

Post by dingaling »

srcreigh wrote: post #129

I haven't read the bill, but this looks like a huge win. FB has abused our brain chemistry with addictive content. Their platform makes discussions more impulsive, passionate and careless not unlike any other addictive substance. People crave "the goods" ie browsing their bite sized feeds, and neglect the responsibility of actually learning about the news. Not unlike how if you're addicted to sugar/unhealthy foods yo…

You should consider rewriting that post with FB substituted by 'social media'.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#173

Post by docdeek »

srcreigh wrote: post #129

I haven't read the bill, but this looks like a huge win. FB has abused our brain chemistry with addictive content. Their platform makes discussions more impulsive, passionate and careless not unlike any other addictive substance. People crave "the goods" ie browsing their bite sized feeds, and neglect the responsibility of actually learning about the news. Not unlike how if you're addicted to sugar/unhealthy foods yo…

Facebook's statement says that news is only 4% of what is shared on their platform. I'm not sure 4% is a major hit to their platform.

On the other hand, they delivered 5.1 billion views to Australian media sites last year. That would seem to me to be a big hit to media sites.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#174

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

xemoka wrote: post #152
Isinlor wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you apply the same standard to people? Tell me, how did your brain come up with what you wrote? How do I validate that it isn't racist, sexist, or slanted towards encouraging violence and harm?

By asking them. You can't just ask an algorithm, it must be designed to show its own work. Credibility is another problem...

Why can’t you just test the algorithm? It’s not conclusive, but it’s also not worthless.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#175

Post by _underfl0w_ »

bwb wrote: post #50
bpodgursky wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will just ensure that all news is transmitted via memes, screenshots, and unsourced copy-pasted quotes. It won't be an improvement.

Why wouldn't people just visit news sites like normal? You go to cnn.com or nytimes.com or your local newspaper. Thats it, just don't allow it at FB. People post so many fake stories from fakes sites, or outrage stories with headlines for clicks, stop incentivizing that behaviour. Just ban all politics/news and let people talk about other stuff.

You might be underestimating the percentage of the population for whom the internet is Facebook. Just like AOL a few decades ago, there are still plenty of uneducated people who genuinely don't know how to navigate the internet on their own. Those people then go on to effectively get their news from Facebook or similar.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#176

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

djoldman wrote: post #167
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any single site doesn’t have the power to change Facebook. Your suggestion is equivalent to “no child is forced to work in the mines. If they don’t need the money, they can choose to go to school instead”

It seems to me that Facebook putting an anchor link to a website on a facebook page is materially different from child labor. Should sites be allowed to link to other sites? Also, every website has the power to change Google: just put the noindex tag on your pages and you'll effectively prevent links from Google to your website. For facebook, it's trickier. One thing that might work is sharing something from your web…

These links and snippets are mutually beneficial. The argument is if the “natural” allocation of benefits is fair and the best possible for society.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#177

Post by ekimekim »

panda21 wrote: post #144

If FB and Google are the only two on the naughty list, does this give opportunity for smaller startups to take advantage, or have they made it clear that startups can easily be added to the list as well?

The law is being made under the auspices of anti-monopoly legislation, so adding a company to the list requires they hold a monopolistic position.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#178

Post by marshmallow_12 »

extropy wrote: post #101
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem I have with this requirement is that it requires giving only news organizations access to this information. Your concerns can adequately be addressed by ensuring everyone has even access to that information. Google and Facebook's algorithms should be required to be publicly disclosed. As a society, we should demand that we are able to see the algorithms that every web property lives and dies based on…

Publicly disclosing the algorithms would drastically increase the pace of gaming them and resulting in pay to play system where the fanciest SEO wins. Google and Facebook partially relies on the obscurity to keep the fighting the spam battle. IMO we don't have the technology yet to have fully open ranking algorithms that are not quickly broken. To think of it - similar to crypto around WW2.

delegating the war against spam rather then being picked up by the user doesn't seem right. To give Big Tech such power to relieve ourselves of a mild annoyance is destructive. This is understood in other aspects of life Hence we have local governments which are inefficient and inconvenience people greatly. Yet it is found that selling all our problems is counterproductive. It ends with monopolies. The answer to this isn't to charge tech companies for the privilege of dictating our lives, rather, it's greater accountability on behalf of big tech and more responsibility on the part of consumers. The only cure for google domination is for the transfer of information online to become more democratised.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#179

Post by bawolff »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #117
bawolff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m sure each of you will be shocked to hear that Google & FB each have been hostile to the process form the start and have missed meetings A powerful company resisting a process from which they have nothing to gain. Shocking! If you want people to come together, you need to give both sides something to gain (or put a (metaphorical) gun to one sides head). Of course fb is going to resist a process where they only s…

No, if you're the guy who writes the laws, you're allowed to just tell people what to do. That's the deal with laws.

As i said, you can also put a gun to someone's head (law is based on the state's monopoly on violence).

However if you're the guy who writes the laws in australia, you have less (but still some) power over american corporations.

Re: Changes to sharing and viewing news on Facebook in Australia

#180

Post by nojs »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #160
nojs wrote: post #153

Good on Facebook for actually calling the Government’s bluff, with a straightforward explanation of the economics, instead of pretending to and posting strange and confusing things like Google. I tend to believe them that the impact will be minimal, but will be huge to publishers (which is why the law was so ridiculous in the first place).

Nobody disputes the economics. That’s why a law was needed. You’re confusing might with right.

If linking to Australian news content is not in the financial interests of the company, why would they continue to do it? It shouldn’t be surprising that they choose not to.
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