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Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

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Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#171

Post by moate »

koolba wrote: post #105
pwinnski wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many/most supporters of unions argue that police should not be able to form or join unions. "Cops are not workers" is a common phrase I've seen.

I take it a step further and reject all public sector unions. Teachers, cops, firemen, dog catchers, you name it. There’s just too many perverse incentives for politicians to give in to union demands in exchange for buying votes. Unlike the private sector, the ones agreeing to the union demands care little about the long term costs associated since they’re not the ones paying them.

I don't understand. Unions, private or public, represent a massive special interest voting bloc. Instead of "I will be able to directly raise your pay if you vote for me" it's "I will directly benefit your company/industry if you vote for me".

Why do you think Mitch McConnell cares so much about coal?

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#172

Post by omegaworks »

kortilla wrote: post #161
omegaworks wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google employees walked out to protest the golden parachute offered to two serial sexual harassers on their executive team and the conditions that allowed people like them to rise consequence-free through the ranks at the company. That you believe it's a "fit" thrown for causes that "don't connect with the average person" is reflecting pretty poorly on your priorities. Nobody wants to believe your boss is skipping ov…

The most recent drama was about a researcher having her quitting ultimatum called by a manager. It wasn’t anything to do with sexual harassment or anything about underpaid or unsafe workplaces.

Google has a white supremacy problem. The James Damore incident was a highly public display of that internal tension. It's a sign they have made little progress resolving it with the firing of Timnit Gebru, an eminently qualified data scientist that focused her work on that exact issue.

A union is not just about how "highly paid" employees are, it can help protect employees from those kinds of institutional deficiencies.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#173

Post by DataSceince123 »

legitster wrote: post #9

I have to imagine unions have a bit of an uphill battle right now, they took some major black eyes in 2020: - Police unions openly declaring war on their own citizens - Teachers unions causing general chaos in school reopening plans I understand that public sector unions are a different beast, but purely from an optics perspective I have to imagine public sentiment for unions can't be very high right now.

1) The police need to be defunded and disbanded, this will take care of problems within unions of a corrupt institution 2) Teachers were right not going back to school, this is the deadliest pandemic in the history of the united states and to expect teachers to work is a crime. Therefore the union did its job

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#174

Post by ATsch »

bluGill wrote: post #148
ATsch wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with your concerns about people being kept in their job for unjustified reasons. I think it's something we've all had experience with. At my first job, I had a horrible boss. A friend tried to speak up against him and was promptly fired. Turns out he was a relative of the CEO and was thus unfireable. Just a few weeks ago I also spoke to someone who told his experience of reporting someone for sexual h…

If sexual harassment really exists a lawyer will be glad to help. Companies that don't take care of it end up in big trouble - to your lawyers advantage. Sexual harassment is one of several things that the legal system takes seriously.

I think the fact that you read that message and this was your conclusion is kind of concerning.

Either way getting a restraining order or whatever on someone you work with is definitely not going to improve your situation, if you can even prove it in the first place.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#175

Post by Mountain_Skies »

From personal experience, I can say working in a closed shop UFCW grocery store was better on almost every level than when I worked in a non-union grocery store. I count that as a positive experience but I've also seen unions that are little more than extortion rackets. There's one particular union active in my area that protests any job site where they wanted their members hired exclusively and didn't get their way. The members of the union don't themselves protest, instead they hire minimum wage workers to harass passersby. They line both sides of sidewalks, leaving only a very small path through. Each person on both sides of the sidewalk will push a sheet of paper in the face of anyone trying to get by, being careful to not actually touch the person. The paper is their demand that the job site hire them. These lines can be twenty or thirty people deep, with each participating in the just legal enough harassment. They also issue whistles to these faux protestors to blow throughout the day in order to make life as miserable as possible in the area. They know the limits to what they can legally get away with. Doubt anyone who has had to run that gauntlet more than once came away with a positive view of unions. Not sure what's the solution to this type of behavior and this is an extreme example but in general unions often take the public hostage in their disputes which makes their image with the public negative.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#176

Post by biztos »

random5634 wrote: post #21
simpixelated wrote: post #5

Along with the unionization at Google, I think it's a good trend to see them happening at big tech companies. As it says in the article: "Unions are a prominent presence at Amazon in Europe, but the company for years successfully fought off labor organizing efforts in the U.S." It's sad that Amazon, along with FB and Google, etc. have managed to squash unions so completely here in the US. There's a lot of propaganda…

The propaganda unfortunately also comes from folks direct experience with unions. In the US, most unions are public sector. So folks see that Police unions may protect bad apples via union. Teachers unions may care more about teachers including bad ones then teaching kids. We had a famously terrible teacher at my school - unfirable - as kids we thought it was hilarious. As a parent now - not so cool. Non unionized sc…

> Police unions may protect bad apples via union.

I think it's pretty clear that at least some police unions work strongly against the interests of society -- but I haven't seen any evidence that they work against the interests of their members.

Sure, if you're an honest cop it probably stings that a murderer can collect his pension like nothing happened; but on the other hand, you know the same protection would be available to you if you were accused.

Or consider that, famously, the NYPD doesn't consider itself beholden to the Mayor. I can't believe that attitude would work without the union. And the unions can also very publicly take political positions that are contrary to their employers' or even the majority of the citizenry -- which looks to me like a serious demonstration of power.

At least in the case of police unions in the US, I can't see how they are a negative example from the point of view of people who might end up as union members.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#177

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

jimbob45 wrote: post #145
simpixelated wrote: post #5

Along with the unionization at Google, I think it's a good trend to see them happening at big tech companies. As it says in the article: "Unions are a prominent presence at Amazon in Europe, but the company for years successfully fought off labor organizing efforts in the U.S." It's sad that Amazon, along with FB and Google, etc. have managed to squash unions so completely here in the US. There's a lot of propaganda…

Google didn’t unionize. Their “union” isn’t federally certified and they have current membership of 700/250000 workers. Google is under no obligation to work with them on anything. In the future, they could get a majority of workers agree to have a union represent them but that’s not the case at this time. What the Google union did was obstruct real unionization efforts at Google. Source: https://www.wsj.com/amp/arti…

I agree with the general thrust of this, but it seems misleading to describe an organization belonging to CWA Local 1400 as fake or not really a part of the labor movement. For better or worse, the labor movement believes these kinds of non-majority pressure groups count as real unions.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#178

Post by Thlom »

stretchcat wrote: post #68
Frondo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one comment on this: > Teachers unions may care more about teachers ... That's precisely the point of a union. It's an organization to protect its members. It's the purpose of the school system overall, including principals, school boards, and so on, to care about teaching kids.

Maybe if student unions weren't a complete joke, the situation would improve. As it stands, teachers unions keep terrible teachers employed, against the interest of the students, while the students have no real representation or organization to provide balance by looking after student interests. My mother was a middleschool teacher when I was in highschool, and drove me to highschool in the morning. Because she was a…

Sorry, but are teachers employed by the union who then sells the teachers labor to the school? Or do I misunderstand?

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#179

Post by worik »

stretchcat wrote: post #68
Frondo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one comment on this: > Teachers unions may care more about teachers ... That's precisely the point of a union. It's an organization to protect its members. It's the purpose of the school system overall, including principals, school boards, and so on, to care about teaching kids.

Maybe if student unions weren't a complete joke, the situation would improve. As it stands, teachers unions keep terrible teachers employed, against the interest of the students, while the students have no real representation or organization to provide balance by looking after student interests. My mother was a middleschool teacher when I was in highschool, and drove me to highschool in the morning. Because she was a…

I find these stories from the USA about teachers unions fascinating. My prior is strongly pro union, so for a long time I disbelieved them. But I hear them so often from so many sources...

We had problems back in the day here (Aotearoa) as the union movement became the battle ground for the larger social class conflicts, that whilst meat hook reality overseas, made less sense here (here it was racial conflict and colonisation that mattered, another story, another day).

The union movement was smashed in the conflict. Too corrupt and ossified to fight back against a revitalised state in the 1980s and 90s. But the public sector unions survived, and were are strong now. The teachers union here is mighty.

But we see none of the problems (bad teachers defended, stupid rules enforced arbitrarily - well some, there is still bureaucracy). The unions campaign very effectively for their members, some political agents try to stir up concern (American issues leak through here) but mostly no body really cares. When my children were at school I never gave it a thought.

Good luck to the Amazon workers, I hope it goes well.

Re: Amazon Warehouse Workers to Decide Whether to Form Company's First U.S. Union

#180

Post by jandrewrogers »

paul7986 wrote: post #3

They should and should be making no less then $20 an hour to start!

The median wage in Alabama for all jobs is $16/hour. Paying warehouse workers well above the median wage would have fairly negative economic implications.
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