Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#171

Post by david927 » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:18 PM UTC

colomon wrote: post #155

wheels wrote: post #141

This was one of the major draws for me for moving to Europe in my early 20s (from the US). After working one year in the US and having one week of vacation, it was bordering on surreal to have 6. That said, most Americans wouldn't like the European pay scales. While a developer gets 3-6 times the vacation in Germany, they make half as much money. For me it was a great trade; I still had a middle class income and spen…

That's what's so surreal about this entire discussion. "I have 7 weeks paid vacation!" as if employers were paying them for 52 weeks' work and then were shocked every year to discover that they only get 45 weeks of work.

That's not true. Europe is very regional in its pay structures. You can make very little in Berlin, move to Frankfurt or Brussels and make a fortune. The same is true in the States: what you make in Palo Alto is multiples more than Cleveland. I don't see that pay rates have anything to do with vacation allowances.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#172

Post by cdr » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:19 PM UTC

dmm wrote: post #166

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent grads are only making ~40k, some times less, some times considerably less (people have posted Ask HNs about this topic before). As someone who used to be in that camp, living off half your net at that salary range is not realistic; living on 75% is barely so, if you're eating bologna sandwiches every night. Having a second job is a great idea, it's just too bad you can't get a good consulting job when you're a…

Up until January of this year I was making $40,084.00/yr. That means about $2k/month net. I was paying $156/month on rent by living in a small house with two roommates. I drive a 15yo car that is paid off and I live 3km from work so I don't depend on it. You can live on $12k/yr, you just chose not to.

I can't imagine you were living anywhere desirable that you could pay $156/month in rent.

People living in high cost of living areas can't reasonably live on $12K/year. Luckily, they mostly get paid a lot better $40K/year because they have to.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#173

Post by arethuza » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:22 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #114

bretthoerner wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this is HN, there's a pretty good chance you're an Engineer of some kind. Where are you (or what do you do?) that companies can get away with this?

This is the norm in the UK, companies close over the holidays and there are mandatory holidays that go with that. Being clear about this with new (and especially young) employees is a good idea as to people straight out of college, it's not obvious. But there's certainly nothing dodgy about it.

In Scotland closing on January the 1st and 2nd is practically a medical requirement.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#174

Post by retroafroman » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:23 PM UTC

stephen_g wrote: post #127

Wow, that really is incredible... I really can't imagine not being able to take a week of vacation for fear of losing my job... Do you guys in the US get time in lieu? My job is 40 hours a week, and if you work longer than that, you can take the time off later. So working fifteen minutes longer every day lets you have another week off (paid) every year, in addition to the four weeks paid holiday you get. And since ho…

Generally no. Most engineering jobs fall in the "salaried professional" category, which means that no over time is paid and that you're expected to work for 40 hours a week. I've seen a lot of nice managers allow employees to take some downtime after a stressful or overworked period, but there's not a standard policy at most jobs. Jobs where "punching the clock," usually hourly paid positions, can get a little closer to that, but usually only within a pay period. Example: if my friend puts in a little bit extra each day, he might leave early on Friday, but can't accrue that outside of the two week paycheck to paycheck period.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#175

Post by osks » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:23 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #67

I get 3 paid weeks of vacation per year. More would be nice, but unless I'm going to do something (spend a month in Europe for example) I get tired of being on vacation after a week or so. Also, when it comes to single days here and there my boss just tells me to take them. His way of hoping I pick up the phone on a Saturday when something breaks I guess :) I recently travelled to to the UK and France for 16 days and…

Vacation in Sweden (I think it's like this in other European countries as well, but I don't know for sure) doesn't always mean that you go away somewhere, or at least not for the entire vacation. Say if you have four continuous weeks of vacation during the summer (June to August here in Sweden), which is very common, you might be gone for a week or two, but spend the rest of the time at home.

Since almost everyone have the large part of their vacation during the summer, there is a good chance that some of your friends and family will have vacation at the same time, so you just relax and enjoy life for the rest of the time.

(Or you can just spend the entire vacation repainting your house and be stressed about all the stuff you have to do now that you have the time...)

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#176

Post by btilly » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:25 PM UTC

dmm wrote: post #168

jasonkester wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most undergrads are only making ~$0/year, and seem to get by just fine. Adding an extra $40k into the mix would only seem to help. I made $37k at my first job, and managed to put $10k of that into the market for the first four years. So yes, it's possible. Everything the grandparent says is good advice (apart from the waiting tables thing. Freelancing pays 10-30x as much.) Live cheap when you're young, bank away as m…

I just mentioned waiting tables because it was a job almost anyone could do and that pays decently. It's something you could find quickly to stretch savings between jobs. I don't have any experience with freelancing but that's probably a better idea.

The biggest advantage of waiting tables is that you can get a job, and eat before you get your first paycheck.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#177

Post by civilian » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:25 PM UTC

PonyGumbo wrote: post #129

bretthoerner wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this is HN, there's a pretty good chance you're an Engineer of some kind. Where are you (or what do you do?) that companies can get away with this?

I'm in the US. I work remotely for a large healthcare company. The benefits are terrible, the pay is mediocre, and there are no opportunities for advancement, but it allows me to work from home with limited oversight.

"Working from home with limited oversight" couldn't you turn that into "work remotely from the Caribbean"?

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#178

Post by lpolovets » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:26 PM UTC

sosuke wrote: post #17

My employeer recently went unlimited vacation! Which in practice really means no vacation unless you bully your way into it which is very stressful.

My employer has the same policy, and I've enjoyed a ton of vacation time (in exchange for getting a lot done when I'm not on vacation). Unlimited vacation is an awesome perk in the hands of the right employer.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#179

Post by gaius » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:26 PM UTC

marshray wrote: post #125

troels wrote: post #68

So, in the field of software engineering where competition for employees is tough, is it really still common to give only 2 or 3 weeks vacation? Would it be considered outrageous to ask for 5 or 6 weeks of vacation when interviewing for a position, in Silicon Valley?

I don't know about SV in particular, but I've worked a several tech companies over the years. Yes, usually HR can make exceptions. But you need a good reason, like "at my current job I have 3 weeks of leave accrued, I want to not lose that if I come work for you". But having an engineer who accrues vacation at a different rate than other employees hired under the same circumstances would be quite exceptional. It woul…

On the contrary, there is no better time to negotiate than post offer, pre acceptance.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#180

Post by arethuza » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:27 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #137

brazzy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latter is pretty nice - even in Germany, you only have a right to 2 consecutive weeks.

It's a function of the climate, if you excercise your right to four consecutive weeks, your employer has the right to pick the dates, as long as they are sometime between June and August, since that's when our summer is. For this reason we have the "industrial vacation" in July when all heavy industry shuts down, since it's easier if everyone and the entire supply chain shut down at the same time.

In the UK these are often called "trade holidays" and used to be set on a city by city basis - this seems to have died out now that we have relatively little heavy industry left.