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Terms of Service; Didn’t Read

tosdr.org

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Re: Terms of Service; Didn’t Read

#171
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happens in doctors offices too. Now I try to request all paperwork in advance so I can read. At one (where I thought highly of the doctor who seemed very kind and competent), 2 people in the front office insisted to me that the "other document" to which the main one referred and said I was also agreeing was the same document that had the reference. After I refused to sign, one left and the other made a phone call to…

Last time I went to urgent care/the ER, I was told to sign an electronic pad repeatedly, and no document was provided at all, on paper or screen. It was just verbal, sign for this, sign for that.

Yeah. Maybe they get used to the majority of patients who don't want to read things, and systems even reflect that. I watch the displayed fine print just in case it actually says something, but maybe I should ask more questions.

Once when at a nearby hospital to just get a blood sample drawn, the documents to sign including those by reference were ~11 pages. Fortunately they weren't busy, & I tried to apologize for taking so long & explained I felt it was a matter of honesty to know what I was agreeing to, and they printed things for me and let me cross some of it out. But I found that another nearby hospital system (a regional nonprofit w/ good reputation) had a 2-page agreement, and I go there now even though it is slightly farther for us. (It unfortunately seems like on medical stuff, it helps to get as much as possible covered before the visit, also for financial questions, making sure everyone is in-network etc etc, so I am now trying to remember to ask for everything in advance sometimes.)

Re: Terms of Service; Didn’t Read

#172
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem arises especially when the document is written in legalese. I also feel like I'm not really qualified to understand these documents - they are generally written for people who have the appropriate qualifications. For example when buying a property in the UK, the soliciter will be the one parses the legal documents. It's crazy to think that normal people are expected to fully understand these, and it doesn…

I feel this is one of the major problems with most TOSs... You generally don't have a lawyer around to explain every TOS you come across, so people ignore them and hope for the best. Hmm - I wonder if there would be a niche for a website that explains specific, common TOSs in easy to understand terms?

Also possibly of interest, though I haven't even read their site carefully: https://stonecutters.law/

They say "Stonecutters publishes legal forms and clauses for other legal craftsmen to incorporate by reference."

Re: Terms of Service; Didn’t Read

#173
post #121

It's all farcical, but it's pervasive because of the lawyers I guess. Even a supposedly design-first-consumer-friendly company like Apple has walls of tiny text to scroll through. If only Terms of Services could be upgraded to: 1. A simple, plain English/local language explanation in bullet points of what the software will be doing. Like how you would explain it to your parents. 2. A link to the legalese, so that cov…

Yes, like we do with Creative Commons or FLOSS licenses, so you don't have any reason to read them more than once or occasionally. Whether somebody. Maybe something like the uniform commercial code, in the USA. That would be a nice contribution by some organization. Even if only some sections are standardized and others not, that would be a comparative win. Maybe an "exceptions/additions" part. Edit: also, there are…

For reference in case useful, though I haven't even read their site carefully: https://stonecutters.law/

They say "Stonecutters publishes legal forms and clauses for other legal craftsmen to incorporate by reference."

Re: Terms of Service; Didn’t Read

#174
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide me with an example?

A car sales, or a house rental contract. Both can be around 20 - 50 pages long, all of it written in such language.

I meant a literal one. A link to an existing document. I cannot seem to find any.
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