WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#171

Post by lwhi » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:56 PM UTC

backWardz00 wrote: post #156

seesawtron wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social life is impossible without the mainstream technology. Sure you can find alternatives but if no one uses it other than you, you end up being sidelined. The technology gets enforced and leaves one with no choice but to accept it or be a red flag. Shouldn't it be possible to delete your whatsapp chat and contacts data regularly from the cloud? Eg. one could delete the whatsapp account, clear data on cloud and mak…

Your mistake is believing those apps are for socializing. They’re for aggregate metrics and attention collecting on the part of the company. I do not have a Facebook empire, Twitter, TikTok or other social media presence. I email academics I can’t visit. I group text friends and family to make plans, and use the calendar built into my phone to remind myself of those events.

A lot of people do use social media as their main method of socialising, especially during this pandemic.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#172

Post by zeruch » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:56 PM UTC

Well, delete it is then.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#173

Post by sandworm101 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:57 PM UTC

torben-friis wrote: post #161

backWardz00 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your mistake is believing those apps are for socializing. They’re for aggregate metrics and attention collecting on the part of the company. I do not have a Facebook empire, Twitter, TikTok or other social media presence. I email academics I can’t visit. I group text friends and family to make plans, and use the calendar built into my phone to remind myself of those events.

In many countries, WhatsApp equals texting, period. No one will use sms, among other things because they're not free (~20 cents per message, character limited, no multimedia). The reality is that WhatsApp is a requirement for social life. Any solution that doesn't start from that point lacks any practicality.

Thats fine. You can just accept that facebook is essential to the social life of your country, that the facebook eula is defacto legislation that you just obey. On the other hand, Signal works. My friends and I use it every day. We have not surendered, nor shall we.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#174

Post by Barrin92 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 11:58 PM UTC

AndriyKunitsyn wrote: post #98

Barrin92 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal. Open source, non-profit, very good privacy defaults. Telegram seems even worse than whatsapp to be honest because they don't even have encryption on by default.

Telegram always has encryption, just no end-to-end encryption by default. This is a privacy/convenience trade-off. When chatting about groceries/memes/latest Netflix releases, you don't really need E2EE that much, and chats without E2EE are synced to all devices in Telegram, including a fully-supported desktop app.

I'm willing to bet you money that virtually nobody adjusts their privacy settings based on topic of conversation, especially not non-tech people which is almost all users. I don't think I've ever seen anyone chat with their girlfriend and go "hey, grocery talk over, switch to e2ee now". Defaults matter and I'm certain almost no telegram conversations use e2ee as a consequence, with private info or otherwise. It's important to have it as a default and to tell people why they should use an app that does.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#175

Post by lwhi » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:00 AM UTC

FB: If we're not allowed to track you across the web, we'll use your data captured via our properties to make more money from you via targetted advertising.

Users: whatever.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#176

Post by frereubu » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:01 AM UTC

input_sh wrote: post #123

sagivo wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it compared to telegram?

Telegram is only end-to-end encrypted in a feature called secret chats. Groups and channels and individual chats are not end-to-end encrypted. In other words, Telegram doesn't even deserve to be in the same conversation. Even if it had the best encryption out there (however you define that), that wouldn't mean anything when it's not used in like 98% of the cases (percentage pulled out of my ass). It's like comparing…

One thing to note about Telegram's secret chats is that they're device-specific. That is, if you start a conversation on your phone, you can't pick up that conversation on your laptop: https://telegram.org/faq#secret-chats

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#177

Post by FabHK » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:01 AM UTC

Anyone have any opinion why Wire didn't take of? E2E, good functionality (chat, group chat, video chat, voice chat, GIF images emojis yadda yadda yadda), multi-device, clients for all major platforms (eg for the iPad, unlike WhatsApp), open source, phone number or email as identifier, audited, Swiss/EU servers, no profiling, no ads...

Can't find any downside, really - except that few people are on it.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#178

Post by FabHK » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:02 AM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #165

bigiain wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the opposite point of view, in the last hour I’ve been added to 3 different group chats on Signal that were all previously WhatsApp chats (in which I did not participate, in spite of many of those friends repeatedly asking me to). That’s added at least 20 or 30 friends/acquaintances into my signal contact list that I’m 99% sure downloaded signal for the first time this morning.

Why not just use SMS/iMessage groups ?

In many countries, few people have iPhones, and SMS are costly.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#179

Post by SturgeonsLaw » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:03 AM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #165

bigiain wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the opposite point of view, in the last hour I’ve been added to 3 different group chats on Signal that were all previously WhatsApp chats (in which I did not participate, in spite of many of those friends repeatedly asking me to). That’s added at least 20 or 30 friends/acquaintances into my signal contact list that I’m 99% sure downloaded signal for the first time this morning.

Why not just use SMS/iMessage groups ?

SMS is not encrypted, iMessage is Apple only

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#180

Post by frereubu » Thu, Jan 07, 2021, 12:03 AM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #165

bigiain wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the opposite point of view, in the last hour I’ve been added to 3 different group chats on Signal that were all previously WhatsApp chats (in which I did not participate, in spite of many of those friends repeatedly asking me to). That’s added at least 20 or 30 friends/acquaintances into my signal contact list that I’m 99% sure downloaded signal for the first time this morning.

Why not just use SMS/iMessage groups ?

You can't do group chats in the same way using SMS messages. People who receive an SMS have no idea who else the message was sent to, so they can't even "reply all".