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Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

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Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#171

I'm one of those people who is entirely bemused by violent videogames and films (I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be bemused by my pastimes too). I'm not trying to argue to stop anyone doing it, but I would really like to understand it better. Many video games are essentially simulators of things that we're prevented from doing in reality, because of the laws of nature or society. Whether that's dropping…

I'll try to break this down one by one.

>Many video games are essentially simulators of things that we're prevented from doing in reality, because of the laws of nature or society. Whether that's dropping blocks into place, building a city, chasing and eating ghosts, flying a plane, performing magic spells, or engaging in physical violence.

I've played a lot of ultra-violent games, puzzle games, adventure rpg games, competitive shooters and mobas and more.

I've become quite skilled in most of them (t500 in OW and GE in CS:GO, to compare to competitive skill levels). I really enjoy "mastering" these games. (for example finished Doom: Eternal on the hardest not allowed to die mode too). This is ultimately what it's about more than the killing of monsters/people. It's about trying to survive impossible odds by skill or competing with other people to be better and get better. Your mileage will vary as this isn't what other people want to get out of games. Some people enjoy managing a farm in games like Stardew Valley, building things in Minecraft, solving puzzles in Portal and enjoy the story and gameplay whilst doing so.

>And there's a never-ending push to make experiences more photorealistic, to make simulator even better. From that I can only conclude that people want to get as close to the experience of perfoming the prevented act as possible.

Making games look better goes hand-in-hand with making them look more 'photorealistic' or realistic in general. We're very much grounded in our own realities. So when you're going for a 3d experience that emulates real life events like wars. You will end up with something that looks more photorealistic. It doesn't however mean that the game feels real. Playing a game like insert recent AAA fps is a very different experience from watching the Christchurch shooting. The latter makes me sick to my stomach, the former doesn't at all. NPCs are ultimately just visual representations of people, the latter actual people.

>Chopping someone up is heavily frowned upon in real life, but perfectly acceptable to emulate in someone's living room. Somehow the simulation escapes the taboo. And that escape seems to be absolute: In the range of violent acts you could commit, from a gentle nudge to grisly murder, simulation of the most extreme extent is permitted.

It's a thought I think almost no one actually has when it comes to murdering people. Hell this might even have the same effect as pornography, namely a reduction in crimes related to it. (Porn availability on a societal level reduces the amount of sex crimes). So a potential murdering being able to 'chop "people" to bits in a simulation' might be a good thing. For me it has no effect, I've never had the thought of murdering people let alone how. At most I've had a "I hope you die" moment, and then regretting thinking that.

>But if that's the case, why is the realistic simulation of some societal taboos (e.g. physical violence to the point of murder) mainstream, but others (e.g. sexual violence in any of its forms) not? They are both very serious offences, but somehow one gets a free pass to let anyone pretend to do it, but the other not.

Though certainly not mainstream, this might also have to do with general taboos on porn, this could become a thing in the future especially with VR. A lot of people have very taboo sexual fantasies the they enact with partners. We know that this is the case, but it rarely gets openly talked about due to the former taboo mentioned.

>Is it a reflection on the ultimate limits of those taboos in the society that produces most of these games? Or is my logic broken somewhere?

I think your logic is indeed a little broken, as different taboos are taboos for different reasons. Hopefully I made some sense.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#172

Fox News and Facebook did to our parents what they said video games would do to us. Credit: https://twitter.com/allymayn/status/1328448039497867264

One of the big pushes for this came from Tipper Gore and slightly the Clinton Admin in the 90s. Do you think that was Fox News or Facebook?

I think you missed the point of this quote.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't we just have a HN about a depressing amount of food studies being sponsored by food conglomerates?

no one outside of the video game industry would waste their time with this study because they already know the outcome from having passively observed several hundred million children not become violent from video games. Video games do not make people violent - and based on my observation of at least several thousand peers - it actually has the opposite effect. The truth is video games are a healthy outlet, as well as…

It's pretty dishonest to put all kinds of video games in the same bucket and then make sweeping generalizations about their health impact.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#174
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Mexico too. Kids (males mostly) playing with toys guns or swords is normal. Almost all games/sports are microcosms for wars, football, basketball, tag, hide n seek. Both kids and adults love these microcosms of war. They don't pretend to be narcos because they like toy guns. They do it because they aspire to a quality of life they will never get via a normal working job.

The third paragraph kind of contradicts the second one one. I mean why don’t they pretend to be businessmen, politicians or investment bankers then?

Which sounds more exciting to you?

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awareness also brings behavioural changes. Could be there's less crime because of all the extra precautions being taken.

No? A) There are easy marks everywhere. B) Which crimes did your mind gravitate towards? Were those crimes ever major parts of all crimes committed? Does the presence or absence of children materially change any of that?

There's a pretty popular theory that the advances in forensics and the prevalence of surveillance cameras are a driving factor in the reduction of crime. Even stuff like kids having a cell phone to call police or track their location could be a mitigating factor.

I do agree that there are still many easy marks. I think the advancement of the aforementioned technologies and the parent comment's point about parents in general being more cautious removes many of the opportunity for certain crimes, or at least to get away with them.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#177
post #80

I have noticed that many social science articles posted on Hacker News bring out critical comments about study design, doubts about the strength of the study's conclusions, that kind of thing. This submission, on the other hand, is a link to some kind of gaming news website, which links to an abstract for an article in a Cyberpsychology (?) journal which costs $60 to access, and there is widespread and uncritical agr…

Perhaps it's because it's confirming something that we all knew anyway? I'm sure most of the HN crowd have played all sorts of video games, and we lead pretty non violent lives (I have to assume).

Also because it's been shown time and time again in study after study.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#178
post #98

I must admit, I don't understand the appeal of the most violent video games. I recently read "The Last of Us Part II" described as being "about [...] the awful things that humans can do to each other" [0]. Why would I want to spend my leisure time experiencing that? How is that entertaining? [0] https://www.theguardian.com/games/2020/dec/23/the-15-best-vi...

The same reason we read stories like Hamlet, Catcher in the Rye, To Kill A Mocking Bird, etc in school. So much of what we read has to do with awful things people do and a reflection on that.

In the case of video games, there are some that are mindless violence, but The Last of Us Part II is an example of a game that reflects on those and show the real outcome of what people can do to each other and how evil and pointless it can be.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having grown up in the manner you describe, and being a parent of several young kids - I do find the prospect of them having a similar childhood pretty terrifying. I am forever thankful for a childhood like that - but letting my kids run amok in this day and age for hours brings me a lot of anxiety. It is an interesting paradox that makes me a bit sad. edit: for the record, we have them in wrestling / jiu jitsu - so…

there is nothing different this day and age except awareness crime is lower across the board compared to 15-20 years ago ignorance was bliss, for you

> there is nothing different this day and age except awareness

And the fact that crime has dropped like a rock, with a ~20 year lag, after leaded fuel was phased out.

Re: Ten year study: No link between violent video games and aggressive behavior

#180
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why it's so important to let them play. They end up figuring out a lot of important things by themselves that it would be almost impossible otherwise.

It's kind of like watching kids invent society. Really quite fascinating to watch.

I don't know if they are inventing society or they are learning how to act on a society. And what I mean by "how to act on a society" I mean to learn how to interact with others, where are the limits, the consequences of your actions, etc.
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