Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 209 posts

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#171

Post by jamoes »

nullc wrote: post #135
jamoes wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why you chose to use the term "bcash" to refer to BCH. No exchanges or mainstream projects use that term to refer to BCH. As far as I'm aware it's primarily used as a pejorative, so it seems strange that you'd use it here. As far as BCH's additional value: I'd suggest researching the block size debate. This debate is BCH's entire reason for existing. This article [1] from 2016 by Mike Hearn contains a goo…

Its authors, original funders, and most exchanges originally referred to it as "BCC" which was, unfortunately, also the symbol for the Bitconnect ponzi scheme. "Bitcoin Cash" is both a mouthful and enabler of outright fraudulent behaviour, where people are sold BCH and think they got Bitcoin at a really good price (was more common in the past but still happens now). Just about every business that accepts Bitcoin paym…

> a knock-off-name like "Bitcoin Cash"

"Knock-off" is a curious word choice. Are you under the impression that someone owns the term "Bitcoin"?

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#172

Post by arcticbull »

noxer wrote: post #170
arcticbull wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “A security of what” There’s a legal test called the Howey test you can use to find out if what you’re looking at is a security. [1] Roughly speaking a security is anything you put your money into with the expectation of it becoming worth more through no effort of your own. > “Selling a random token is like printing my own money. The SEC would not prevent me form selling worthless piece of paper if I dont mislead b…

You dodged the question. A security of what? And yes they do that that right IF there is a security of some sort being sold OR IF there is a contract that implies some sort of security like benefits OF IF there is fraudulent promises being made like promised RoI or voting rights or something. If you just sell something physically created or digitally created that you legally own and the other party agreed on the pric…

I addressed your question: a "security of what" is not a relevant question in this context because you've misunderstood the definition of a security, and I corrected you. You do not need to answer that question for something to be deemed a security. I then gave you a legal test, the Howey test, which contains the question you should be asking. I also explained how it applies in my response. It's pretty cut and dried.

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#173

Post by gruez »

zhoujianfu wrote: post #136
aeternum wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could buy Steam games years ago because Bitcoin volume was low. Just try some math: How large would blocks need to be to handle just 50% of Visa's current US transaction rate?

VISA says they do 150M transactions per day. I’m not sure how many are US, but let’s say half. Avg BTC transaction is 250 bytes, so you’d need about 10GB a day (about 70MB) blocks to do what you propose. A 3TB drive is $39 on Amazon right now. So maybe 13c a day in storage costs to run half of visa’s US transactions. Not raising Bitcoin’s block size has got to be THE most insane technical decision in modern history.

>VISA says they do 150M transactions per day. I’m not sure how many are US, but let’s say half. Avg BTC transaction is 250 bytes, so you’d need about 10GB a day (about 70MB) blocks to do what you propose.

Your calculations are off. It's closer to 20GB per day: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=150%2C000%2C000+*+0.5+...

>A 3TB drive is $39 on Amazon right now. So maybe 13c a day in storage costs to run half of visa’s US transactions.

Redoing the calculations with the correct figures comes to 24.4 cents per day. That might not seem a lot, but that's also $89/year, which makes it a non-negligible expense for anyone wanting to run a full node. Not to mention, the data would have to be stored for eternity, so someone wanting to start a full node 5 years from now will need to invest almost $500 just to get started. That would put someone wanting to run a full bitcoin node into /r/datahoarder territory.

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#174

Post by gruez »

FreeTrade wrote: post #132
gruez wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't answer my initial question, how is blockstream supposed to monetize lightning, or anything for that matter? >The claim, as far as understand it, is that Blockstream supported this plan, anticipating its failure, while working on its own replacement technology, Liquid. I took a quick skim of blockstream's materials on liquid, and it sounds like it's something totally different to lightning? They describe…

The claim is not that Blockstream intended to profit from Lightning. Rather they used the promise of Lightning to throttle Bitcoin, in order to profit from Liquid.

Okay, how are they profiting from liquid? Moreover, what's liquid's "moat"? What's stopping me from copying liquid's software (seems to be open source) and making a clone that charges 0% fees?

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#175

Post by gruez »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #168
gruez wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Years of saying that a throughput of more than a few kilobytes was impossible I don't think anyone thought that was impossible from a technical standpoint, just from a decentralization standpoint. >while one of the devs repeatedly - and this is not a joke - stated the sun revolved around the earth. source?

> I don't think anyone thought that was impossible from a technical standpoint, just from a decentralization standpoint. That's the same thing and it makes zero sense. Most people never sync with the chain and those that want to only need bandwidth far less than watching a low res youtube video. Validating blocks is at least 600x faster than real time on a computer from last decade. I would love to hear how you can r…

> Most people never sync with the chain and those that want to only need bandwidth far less than watching a low res youtube video. [...] I would love to hear how you can rationalize a statement like that.

Except you know, the storage costs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25570915

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#176

Post by [deleted] »

ineedasername wrote: post #151
nepthar wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. There is nothing to suggest that something can't both behave in a regulatory environment and exist if that environment fails. Cars, for instance - They require registration so long as the body enforcing registration exists. If that changes, cars can still run.

The paradox is in both wanting the cars (well, crypto) alive & function and also not be subject to the regulatory environment, while that environment is alive & functioning. That seems to be the dream of a certain subset of crypto enthusiasts: Widespread crypto that bypasses existing regulations. I don't think it can get to that point. In order to gain widespread adoption, you need on-ramps & off-ramps for people to…

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#177

Post by arcticbull »

pixelpoet wrote: post #119
arcticbull wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“IMHO good move for the ecosystem overall” is what I was referring to. I assumed you meant the crypto ecosystem is that not the case?

One reason it's good for the cryptocurrency ecosystem is because Ripple was never a real cryptocoin, in the decentralised trustless blockchain sense like basically all the others. A bit of a loose analogy might be regulators stopping the sale of "cheese", which is not actually cheese, next to cheese products. All the other actual-cheeses were cheapened by this "cheese product" being sold alongside it.

Sure it is, it's just not a cryptocurrency you happen to like. Some people liked it some people didn't. It's just a religious thing.

Re: cheeses regulators would only stop the sale if it was harmful. They may say you can't call it cheese anymore, though. Not really the same thing. A real life example is Velveeta.

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#178

Post by noxer »

arcticbull wrote: post #172
noxer wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You dodged the question. A security of what? And yes they do that that right IF there is a security of some sort being sold OR IF there is a contract that implies some sort of security like benefits OF IF there is fraudulent promises being made like promised RoI or voting rights or something. If you just sell something physically created or digitally created that you legally own and the other party agreed on the pric…

I addressed your question: a "security of what" is not a relevant question in this context because you've misunderstood the definition of a security, and I corrected you. You do not need to answer that question for something to be deemed a security. I then gave you a legal test, the Howey test, which contains the question you should be asking. I also explained how it applies in my response. It's pretty cut and dried.

No you did not. You said it should be a security first and I asked you "of what" not "why". The Howey test and all your other argument are not news to me and dont answer the question. What is XRP the security of? And what is ETH the security of?

If you wanna know why the Howey test is misused in this case you can read https://ripple.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Ripple-Wells-S...

And like I said on my preview post if they would actually think XRP is a security then it would have been one since ever and it would still be one today. Which is not the case since the allegations are only about the sell contracts. But anyway none of that was or answers my question.

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#179

Post by nullc »

jamoes wrote: post #171
nullc wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its authors, original funders, and most exchanges originally referred to it as "BCC" which was, unfortunately, also the symbol for the Bitconnect ponzi scheme. "Bitcoin Cash" is both a mouthful and enabler of outright fraudulent behaviour, where people are sold BCH and think they got Bitcoin at a really good price (was more common in the past but still happens now). Just about every business that accepts Bitcoin paym…

> a knock-off-name like "Bitcoin Cash" "Knock-off" is a curious word choice. Are you under the impression that someone owns the term "Bitcoin"?

Someone doesn't have to own it for it to be fraud to mislead someone using it.

No one owns the word "gold" but if I sell you a bunch of gold plated tungsten as "gold" I'm still defrauding you.

Re: Coinbase to Suspend Trading in XRP

#180

Post by CyberDildonics »

gruez wrote: post #175
CyberDildonics wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think anyone thought that was impossible from a technical standpoint, just from a decentralization standpoint. That's the same thing and it makes zero sense. Most people never sync with the chain and those that want to only need bandwidth far less than watching a low res youtube video. Validating blocks is at least 600x faster than real time on a computer from last decade. I would love to hear how you can r…

> Most people never sync with the chain and those that want to only need bandwidth far less than watching a low res youtube video. [...] I would love to hear how you can rationalize a statement like that. Except you know, the storage costs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25570915

Over 11 years, bitcoin's full blockchain has grown to 1/25th of a $150 hard drive.

When people say that you can't have more than a few kilobytes per second of throughput because VISA does 150M transactions per day, it doesn't make them sound like they have thought this through, it makes them sound like they are grasping at straws to try to rationalize nonsense that they want for reasons they won't say.

There are lots of cryptocurrencies now, no chain is going to suddenly have 150 million transactions per day while all the others die off. Even then, it would cost a single person far less in disk space than the electricity to run their refrigerator and again, few people even sync with the chain.

These are the same nonsense recycled bizarre statements that get made over and over. Why do the people in charge of bitcoin push propaganda that has no connection to reality? That's the real question.

Post reply on HN