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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#171

Post by whakim »

6c9be5fc6b39 wrote: post #127
slg wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is possible for a Black person to feel discriminated against because of their race even when such discrimination has not occurred. This explanation's believability has an inverse relationship with the number of claims. I could buy the idea that a couple people perceived "normal annoying work crap" as discrimination, but would that happen 15 times? 75% of the Black employees left the company in a 6 month window. Y…

The article implies that a number of the Black people who left did so because the compliance division was relocated and they didn't want to relocate with it. It doesn't say how many people's decisions were influenced by annoying work crap that they interpreted as discrimination. This is a really dishonest article. It tries to lead one to believe things (e.g. that 15 Black people left Coinbase because they were belitt…

Well, the article starts from the premise that an abnormally large percentage of Coinbase's black employees left over a short period of time. It then uses a large body of circumstantial evidence to (pretty convincingly, in my opinion) portray the culture at Coinbase as hostile to employees of color. Not really sure how that's dishonest.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#172

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

6c9be5fc6b39 wrote: post #127
slg wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is possible for a Black person to feel discriminated against because of their race even when such discrimination has not occurred. This explanation's believability has an inverse relationship with the number of claims. I could buy the idea that a couple people perceived "normal annoying work crap" as discrimination, but would that happen 15 times? 75% of the Black employees left the company in a 6 month window. Y…

The article implies that a number of the Black people who left did so because the compliance division was relocated and they didn't want to relocate with it. It doesn't say how many people's decisions were influenced by annoying work crap that they interpreted as discrimination. This is a really dishonest article. It tries to lead one to believe things (e.g. that 15 Black people left Coinbase because they were belitt…

It didn't come across as dishonest at all, but your post did.

> The article implies that a number of the Black people who left did so because the compliance division was relocated and they didn't want to relocate with it. It doesn't say how many people's decisions were influenced by annoying work crap that they interpreted as discrimination.

And mentions the one white person was allowed to stay remote. Pretty dishonest to leave that detail out, no?

> This is a really dishonest article. It tries to lead one to believe things (e.g. that 15 Black people left Coinbase because they were belittled in meetings) without stating it outright or making a case for it. Just insinuation spun up from a few concrete situations that themselves are mostly vague or not obviously discrimination (the gun and drugs thing being the obvious exception).

After reading it it seems a lot left because of constant issues of discrimination - being told to be in meetings in front of cameras to pretend to be diverse, but being ignored in meetings of consequence. Being told to relocate, but applied unequally. Having meetings about BLM and a month later the boss says "leave it at the door." The guns and drugs comment, the black inferiority comment, those are absolutely damning.

This is how racism/discrimination thrive - by playing in the margins, doing things that aren't provable (they never have an email that says "we're discriminating against you!" so therefore it didn't happen or other arguments of that type), giving bad performance reviews after complaints are made, etc. Much like saying "oh it was a joke!"

And finally the icing on the cake:

> Ms. Sawyerr said she had talked with four other Black employees about bringing a discrimination lawsuit against Coinbase, but the others backed out after being offered hefty severance payments in exchange for confidentiality agreements.

These are multiple people's experience with this company - and there are clearly others who were paid not to say anything.

The article clearly does what it set out to do - show the experiences of people who lived in what they believed to be a toxic work culture. I'm inclined to believe them.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#173

Post by johncena33 »

cbthrow91 wrote: post #55
chandra381 wrote: post #6

> One Black employee said her manager suggested in front of colleagues that she was dealing drugs and carrying a gun, trading on racist stereotypes. Another said a co-worker at a recruiting meeting broadly described Black employees as less capable. Still another said managers spoke down to her and her Black colleagues, adding that they were passed over for promotions in favor of less experienced white employees. The…

I find this hard to imagine without someone getting reprimanded. Not disbelieving the person's quote, but not accepting it as fact either. Seems like it would be easy to get corroborating witnesses for a situation that inappropriate. The only group I've seen it be permissible to make stereotyped observations about in the last decade in an SF tech office is european/indian/chinese workers. FWIW I don't think that's ok…

> The only group I've seen it be permissible to make stereotyped observations about in the last decade in an SF tech office is european/indian/chinese workers.

As a South Asian minority, this is also my experience. The racism, stereotyping and stigma against South Asians feels more acceptable and totally unrecognized.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#174

Post by jasonhansel »

polartx wrote: post #78
demarq wrote: post #7

> I know it’s frustrating and distracting. Let’s keep focused on building an amazing company together. One would hope an amazing company that doesn't cover it's ass when it turns out the executive couldn't give a hoot about the treatment of black people and now everyone knows

One could argue that it would be unethical to use your investors’ money as a political (or even idealogical) bullhorn. Notwithstanding, such a position places zero restrictions on doing the same with your own money..but corporations make for more interesting headlines than the individuals that run them.

I think it's pretty clear that one's moral duty to oppose racism far outweighs one's fiduciary duty to investors.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#175

Post by TACIXAT »

blahblahblogger wrote: post #152
TACIXAT wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If true, what are they doing to change that? When I was at Google there were zero paths to bring in people with potential and train them up. I’m guessing it is the same at Coinbase. Doing nothing to address the problem then pointing at your H1Bs and patting yourself on the back.

honest Q: why is it their job to fix this? also: for companies that are global in nature, with global operations, offices, employees, etc. is it right to take on the issues of the country where they have an office? (or are HQ-ed, or have X% of employees (even if majority)?) Why not other things? Why aren't the issues of the impoverished of India an issue w/ tech companies, especially given the large presence of "well…

If corporations were not involved in our politics in the US it would be fine. You don’t get to shape the laws of a country then wash your hands of responsibility for the people.

Our healthcare relies on our employment, they fund politicians, write laws. They are very much the lords of the modern era and they need to act in the interest of people, or lose their corporate personhood.

As for the globalist perspective, I agree. We should care how people up the supply chain live. I understand the issues in the US significantly better than those in China or India though. For those issues, give them visibility and work toward a solution. It doesn’t have to be either or.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#176

Post by deanCommie »

ardit33 wrote: post #165
whoknew1122 wrote: post #154

Hmmm. A 'mission focused' company that bans discusses political and societal issues also has issues with diversity and how it treats its non-white workers? I'll go ahead and file this in the 'In other news, water is wet' category.

It can go two ways: 1. Coinbase has real problems of discrimination 2. Coinbase is being targeted at a smearing campaign, for not playing ball with the ideology of de-jure of some circles. It is kinda like a repeat of 2003: "if you are not with us (for the Iraqi war), then you are with the terrorist" mantra of conservative circles to justify their war. The truth, is probably somewhere in between. Also, NYT has become…

Just to be clear, the "ideology of de jure" is "treat human being equally regardless of their race, and do not disproportionately murder them by systems intended to protect them", right?

I mean the inciting incident for this was the protests against Police Brutality and Black Lives Matter as a response to the George Floyd killings specifically.

We're not talking about politically correct speech, or "safe spaces" or "cancel culture" or people getting fired over bad twitter joke.

The context here is a societal-wide movement to take meaningful action on data-supported systemic inequalities and discrimination, action that will require political will, individual will, and yes, major corporate support to have any likelihood of success.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#177

Post by roenxi »

> ... an “all star” culture, with mostly young white and Asian men.

Up until yesterday I was very confused at how a tech company could be accused of racism while simultaneously having a (presumably) vast over-representation of Asians who - to the surprise of some - are a minority.

I have since learned [0] that there are literally a large group of people who have redefined "racism" to "unequal distribution of privileges between white people and people of color".

I think it would be necessary for the NYT to be using that definition here to distinguish this from an ordinary labour dispute. I've seen non-black teams where half or more the people quit.

[0] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/white-fragility-de...

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#178

Post by whakim »

ardit33 wrote: post #165
whoknew1122 wrote: post #154

Hmmm. A 'mission focused' company that bans discusses political and societal issues also has issues with diversity and how it treats its non-white workers? I'll go ahead and file this in the 'In other news, water is wet' category.

It can go two ways: 1. Coinbase has real problems of discrimination 2. Coinbase is being targeted at a smearing campaign, for not playing ball with the ideology of de-jure of some circles. It is kinda like a repeat of 2003: "if you are not with us (for the Iraqi war), then you are with the terrorist" mantra of conservative circles to justify their war. The truth, is probably somewhere in between. Also, NYT has become…

If there were important details that were omitted, Coinbase had the opportunity to surface them in their widely-publicized pre-emptive rebuttal.

Also, the "if you're not with us, you're with them" mantra rests on the assumption that supporting the status quo means furthering terrorism/racism/whatever. In 2003 that was provably false given that there was no link between Iraq and Al Qaeda and no evidence of Saddam's supposed WMDs. I think the situation with regards to racial justice in 2020 is much more complex and not quite analagous.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#179

Post by 2-tpg »

pvg wrote: post #99
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, the article talks extensively about Layllen Sawyerr's case. So I'd expect corroboration to look something like "we talked to suchandsuch other people who confirmed she was treated unfairly", "we read this email in which she was treated unfairly", or perhaps "we heard about this specific personnel decision which was unfair to her". A lack of corroboration doesn't mean her accusations are false, but a lack…

The NYT didn't title their piece 'Coinbase is racist'. It's reporting on 'lots of Coinbase's black employees feel the company handles race and diversity issues poorly'. The reporting looks into that and, well, reports on why the employees think that. The 'other side' of this is a Coinbase blogpost that says 'we hired a consultant who told us we don't have such problems'. You are certainly free to decide which of thes…

The article was written as if the hook/angle for the article was created after the No-Politics-Policy, then filled in by contacting former and current employees. I don't think a report with "Coinbase gets lots of unfair flak, but tries really hard to be inclusive" article would be published, or even could have been written with the selection of sources.

That's like scientists finding a negative result, and not getting it published. Skilled scientists don't let that happen often.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#180

Post by [deleted] »

pjc50 wrote: post #37
NelsonMinar wrote: post #20

11 of then ~20 Black employees by early 2019* had complained to HR about racism. That's over half! And that's only the people with the fortitude or optimism to talk to HR (HR is notoriously useless at many companies). That's a complete disaster. 15 of that 20 quit! Why wasn't that treated as an emergency? *At the end the article says at the end of 2019 there's 31 Black employees of 1000. At the beginning of the artic…

> Why wasn't that treated as an emergency? Companies can be incredibly callous about retention issues, especially if fixing them involves noticing which managers are responsible for behaving badly towards their staff.

[deleted]
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