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Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

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Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#171

Post by TheBigSalad »

varispeed wrote: post #46
rich_sasha wrote: post #6

I don't understand the controversy. We know full well the natural world is full of substances with significant impact on our bodies. Many such substances can even on average be harmful, but when used correctly, they are beneficial. Opioids come to mind first and foremost. It's not controversial to give e.g. serious accident victims a shot of morphine. Why are investigations into medicinal use of shrooms or marijuana…

The problem is that in many western cultures suffering is being regarded as a virtue and happiness as a great sin especially if achieved by using substances rather than through other actions. You can glaringly see that where people with chronic pain are denied access to medicinal cannabis, for example here in the UK. You can only receive treatment through a private medical clinic which costs hundreds and sometimes th…

With no real known negative side effects, magic mushrooms are seemingly illegal for nothing other than being fun.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#173

Post by jason0597 »

GordonS wrote: post #93
jason0597 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you thought about trying to find that teacher today and explaining him what actually happened back then with the mushrooms and the essay? Would make for an incredible story

I hadn't thought about that! I can only recall the teacher's nickname (which wasn't exactly complimentary), and I'm not in contact with anyone from those days, so I guess it's a non-starter. Plus, during my school years we were all taught that if you did any drugs at all, you'd end up a disgraced heroin user that would end up on the streets and die, and all the teachers seemed to fully buy-in to this notion.

Lots of people in public positions have to buy in to those theories ala 1984, especially teachers.

You should definitely try and get in contact with that teacher! Go to the school and ask around, try to cross reference the years you studied with the teachers around, they must keep records surely

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#174

Post by trilinearnz »

rich_sasha wrote: post #6

I don't understand the controversy. We know full well the natural world is full of substances with significant impact on our bodies. Many such substances can even on average be harmful, but when used correctly, they are beneficial. Opioids come to mind first and foremost. It's not controversial to give e.g. serious accident victims a shot of morphine. Why are investigations into medicinal use of shrooms or marijuana…

> "They’re afraid that there’s more to reality than they have ever confronted. That there are doors that they’re afraid to go in, and they don’t want us to go in there either, because if we go in we might learn something that they don’t know. And that makes us a little out of their control."

- Ken Kesey, 1966

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#175

Post by Noos »

fsloth wrote: post #143
treis wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Painkillers are temporary. The drugs we are talking about are meant to effect a permanent change on the user. And pain killers, at least OTC ones, don't alter someone's psyche. We can, more or less, rely on their judgment that painkillers are helpful. You can't necessarily say the same for mind altering drugs.

You can't necessarily say the same for mind altering drugs. All things are bad if not taken in moderation. My experience (personal and thus merely anecdotal) on mind altering drugs has been only positive. My SSRI medication was very welcome when I needed it, and I am very happy they 'altered my mind' and helped through some very dark times. If I was hit by depression again I would not mind trying a psilocybin based m…

The problem is we are talking about something that is orthogonal to the effect. An example is more like getting prescribed anti-depressants for back pain. I hear it helps with the pain, but you are getting personality alteration as a side effect with it.

Like if im suffering pain, I don't want to get drug-induced quasi religious epiphanies from psychedelics. I Just want the pain managed. And what's really annoying about LSD is how it keeps getting promoted as a wonder drug here.

What happens when docs start prescribing it for back pain too?

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#176

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

treis wrote: post #112
fsloth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume the main reason for the controversy is the prevailing dogma "Drugs are evil". This dogma has been used to enact countless bills of legislation in most rich countries, which in turn have encumbered the justice and police system, which in turn have put thousands upon thousands of people into to the correctional system for years. After all that busywork, lives destroyed and taxpayer money wasted, it is really…

>I presume the main reason for the controversy is the prevailing dogma "Drugs are evil". Eh, I think this is too dismissive of some pretty deep ethical and philosophical considerations. Effectively they are giving drugs that alter ones perception of reality and then judging their effectiveness on the patients perspective. But since they alter their perception of reality it's tough to rely on patient reports. Anecdota…

This is the kind of post that appears when drugs come up. It's personal opinion, without any facts, strong on unfounded typically assertions and word-weaseling ("..when an objective observer...") and ignores what has been done over a thousand times before, with answers. Answering posts like these is a treadmill for everyone and an ascent for none.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#177

Post by GordonS »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #126
GordonS wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. The time it all went wrong for me, the whole thing was a bad idea from the start. Something terrible had just happened in my friend's family, and we weren't going into it responsibly, and/or to have a fun experience - we just wanted to get fucked up, and took waaaay too much. Right before things went bad, we had an argument, and I ended up alone for a long time. For anyone that's going to use mushrooms…

If someone wants to get fucked up and not remember, alcohol is the way to go. Mushrooms are the opposite of “fucked up” they’re “tuning in”.

I should have mentioned, there was some alcohol and a lot of cannabis too. But we took many times more mushrooms that were required for "tuning in" - an amount for several hours of madness at best.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#178

Post by didibus »

bigbubba wrote: post #146
yummypaint wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue it goes beyond "drugs are evil" for many people and is more of a vestige of the country's backwards puritanical past. It has little to do with medicine and is more closely related to the idea that pleasure is wrong and pulls one away from devotion to the church, tithing, etc. If presented with a hypothetical recreational drug with no side effects, people with this perspective will immediately say it sho…

Blaming puritanical opposition to fun seems like a 'just so' narrative that fits some of the apparent facts, but is contradicted by others. For instance, American culture glorifies caffeine, particularly coca cola which is portrayed in corporate propaganda as a 'fun' drink. When it comes to commercial products like that, there seems to be no hint of an anti-fun bias, ...except perhaps in the Mormons. While anti-fun a…

You bring another good angle, but you also seem to dismiss the OPs seemingly good angle as well. In my opinion, both of those are probably a part of it, there's a lot of people in a country, not everyone will justify their feelings the same way. It's very possible some are opposed due to puritanism, and some are due to impact on social productivity, and some on both, and some others on completely other basis.

We could have some survey based study that tries to ask respondent questions whose answer could maybe begin to give us a little understanding of how much each of these angle might be at play in a given population. That would already avoid a lot of this "I think" "You think" debate.

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#179

Post by didibus »

cubix wrote: post #148
bigbubba wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say you respect her decision, but then in the same breadth go on to say you think it wasn't her decision at all. You've written much in this thread to strangers on the internet about how you believe it was a wrong decision. You have a peculiar way of respecting others' opinions.

By respect I meant that I didn’t attempt argue with her husband about it, or say anything to her, which would have been pointless anyway.

But did behind her back?

Re: Magic mushrooms are changing the lives of terminal cancer patients

#180

Post by didibus »

Noos wrote: post #175
fsloth wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't necessarily say the same for mind altering drugs. All things are bad if not taken in moderation. My experience (personal and thus merely anecdotal) on mind altering drugs has been only positive. My SSRI medication was very welcome when I needed it, and I am very happy they 'altered my mind' and helped through some very dark times. If I was hit by depression again I would not mind trying a psilocybin based m…

The problem is we are talking about something that is orthogonal to the effect. An example is more like getting prescribed anti-depressants for back pain. I hear it helps with the pain, but you are getting personality alteration as a side effect with it. Like if im suffering pain, I don't want to get drug-induced quasi religious epiphanies from psychedelics. I Just want the pain managed. And what's really annoying ab…

> Like if im suffering pain, I don't want to get drug-induced quasi religious epiphanies from psychedelics

That's you buddy. Then don't take it. Others who have chronic back pain might be totally fine with this.

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