Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams • Hacker News Board

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#171

Post by jjk166 » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 2:22 PM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #150

jellicle wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I drive across the county line, don't I (still) deserve a decent police force?

If you know that the next county over has corrupt cops, you shouldn't do business there. I wish more people understood that the reason the USA was set up the way it was was to allow individual States and localities to compete. Corruption doesn't stand up well to competitive pressure: if all the productive people leave your town because the cops and the local government shake everybody down, your town won't survive. S…

How much do you think those people in the corrupt area that everyone is trying to get out of and avoid are going to be able to sell their homes for?

This "solution" is exactly what created the troubles of inner cities to begin with.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#172

Post by davidf560 » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #152

davidf560 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're concerned about writing potentially sensitive video to non-volatile storage, that can be solved via technical means. Just encrypt the video with an ephemeral key kept in memory, then store the encrypted video on non-volatile storage. You get best of both worlds. Once you've recorded that video it's subject to FOIA requests and rules of evidence and all kinds of things like that. If your recording only inc…

>10Gbps being uploaded 24/7 to the cloud that might seem a lot if there's only one server, but it's really not that much considering that it's going to be uploaded from multiple precincts. Wikipedia says there are 21 "districts", so that works out to a 500 Mb/s link per building, which seems pretty modest for a institution. >20 petabytes stored at any moment if you're holding everything for 180 days. If it's being st…

> that works out to a 500 Mb/s link per building, which seems pretty modest for a institution

We're talking 500 Mb/s of upload 24/7 though, which can't be used for anything else (i.e. you need capacity beyond that for any other internet traffic). I doubt a regular old 1Gbps business class connection will cut it there (I'm sure they'd shut you off after a few days of uploading like that).

Despite another post that cited a large budget for NYPD, most agencies are cash-strapped. Telling them they need a $thousands/month internet connection at every precinct isn't going to go over well.

I've been to several PDs (think suburban city - probably like the majority of agencies) where their entire "internet infrastructure" consisted of a Comcast cable modem screwed to a sheet of plywood on a wall. Like I said elsewhere, most PDs are the opposite of high-tech - compared to most companies, their employees don't spend nearly as much time on computers or the internet.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#173

Post by spoopyskelly » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 3:10 PM UTC

cumwolf wrote: post #155

pjc50 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably the high crime rate could be because the police are unaccountable. Why bother solving difficult murders when it's easier to just harass people on the the street to pad your arrest stats?

Police are totally unaccountable. Chicago police receives over 40% of the city's budget. The police profit off of crime in the city. As crime rises there are often calls to fund the police more to combat it rather than invest in the communities where crime is the highest.

If you want community investment try not burning and looting every mom & pop store next time you peacefully protest whatever injustice is trending that day on Twitter.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#174

Post by michael1999 » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 7:48 PM UTC

tylerfontaine wrote: post #79

michael1999 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why a jury is so large, and conviction requires unanimity. Good for you. How many on your jury?

12 + 2 alternates. The trial itself took about 3 weeks.

1 in 12 being open minded is pretty good odds. Good for you being the one.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#175

Post by heavyset_go » Tue, Nov 17, 2020, 7:56 PM UTC

davidf560 wrote: post #46

mattlondon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Madness. "woops - accidentally shot someone for no reason. Better press save on the body camera so I can be prosecuted/sacked!"

Cameras now are starting to include technology where the camera is automatically activated as soon as the officer draws their weapon.

It should be on as long as they're on the clock. Cashiers are under more scrutiny by their employers with security cameras than cops are.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#176

Post by pdonis » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 12:50 AM UTC

f-securus wrote: post #168

pdonis wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you handwave away the real problem, which is how cops make the "aren't a threat" judgment in the heat of a situation, knowing that if they judge wrong they could end up dead. Making that judgment is highly situational, and how cops should judge individual situations is highly dependent on the locality; there simply is no one-size-fits-all set of rules you can give cops that will work.

Police officer isn’t even top 10 dangerous job in this country. I hate when people use that excuse for them flagrantly shooting somebody or their pet. Police training is the first place we can improve. Changing their mentality from a warrior to a guardian also does wonders in lowering use of force. There are real world solutions to this problem but almost half the country think those who got shot by police probably d…

> Police officer isn’t even top 10 dangerous job in this country.

Overall, no. But the overall averages conceal a huge variation in risk by locality. I agree that "it's a dangerous job" doesn't excuse shooting innocent people or their pets. But the danger of the job in particular localities should not be underestimated.

> Changing their mentality from a warrior to a guardian also does wonders in lowering use of force.

Can you give specific examples? I agree with the general idea but I have not seen much actual data on specific localities where this is done or what effect it has.

> almost half the country think those who got shot by police probably deserved it

Citation needed.

> Almost the same crowd protests wearing masks as stepping on their liberties.

The protest is not against wearing masks where it makes sense to do so; it's against being ordered to wear masks whether it makes sense or not, and subjecting people to criminal penalties for non-compliance. For example, according to some orders (fortunately for me, not the one currently in effect where I live), you are subject to arrest for simply walking out your front door without a mask on, even if you remain on your own property and nobody else comes anywhere near you.

And don't forget that the same cops whose corruption and lack of judgment you and I both deplore will be the ones to enforce these orders. Frankly, it strikes me as illogical for people to be talking about defunding the police on the grounds of corruption on the one hand, and talking about issuing draconian orders that would have to be enforced by those same police on the other.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#177

Post by pdonis » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 12:54 AM UTC

jjk166 wrote: post #171

pdonis wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know that the next county over has corrupt cops, you shouldn't do business there. I wish more people understood that the reason the USA was set up the way it was was to allow individual States and localities to compete. Corruption doesn't stand up well to competitive pressure: if all the productive people leave your town because the cops and the local government shake everybody down, your town won't survive. S…

How much do you think those people in the corrupt area that everyone is trying to get out of and avoid are going to be able to sell their homes for? This "solution" is exactly what created the troubles of inner cities to begin with.

> How much do you think those people in the corrupt area that everyone is trying to get out of and avoid are going to be able to sell their homes for?

How much did they buy them for in the first place if the place is corrupt and everyone is trying to get out?

If the place became corrupt after all those people moved there, well, whose fault is that? If your answer is "corrupt politicians and corporations who took advantage of the people", well, there's your barrier to free and open competition between localities.

> This "solution" is exactly what created the troubles of inner cities to begin with.

No, what created the troubles of inner cities was completely unrealistic political expectations. People thought that using the government to fix social problems was a wonderful idea. Inner cities today are tragic evidence of how wrong they were.

Re: Lax oversight allows Chicago police to avoid turning on their body cams

#178

Post by pdonis » Wed, Nov 18, 2020, 12:58 AM UTC

pydry wrote: post #170

pdonis wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't vote corruption out of office. It has to be rooted out from outside In other words, if the corruption is not just particular localities, but infects the national government as well, then we're all screwed?

There is at least more visibility at the higher levels but in general, yeah. Most 3rd world countries with serious endemic corruption get stuck with it.

> Most 3rd world countries with serious endemic corruption get stuck with it.

They get stuck with it because 1st world countries insist on continuing to send aid even though the corrupt governments take all of it and it never benefits the people. Not to mention 1st world countries giving legitimacy to those corrupt governments in many other ways.

In other words, on a global level, the idea that corruption in 3rd world countries is "a global problem" has made the corruption worse, not better.