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Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

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Re: Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they not? Linux for example doesn't have any such features and somehow is okay to use like that.

What stops a Linux program altering the system? I guess you need root access to change things outside of /usr/local this could easily be done on macOS too but the wheel had to be reinvented by Apple in a way that is probably less trustworthy.

With SIP you can't change some things even as root. SIP has definitely made macos a harder target, though it is still lagging Windows in some areas. Linux is almost comically unprotected.

@grishka Edit because I'm rate limited:

I've not seen anything that does executable validation for linux and actually works. Needs lots of kernel support. See the response from the old DigSig author: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732927/signed-executabl...

You can check binary signatures on disk (tripwire) but that is extremely tiresome to maintain and does not prevent straight loading of shellcode into memory.

More recently: https://lwn.net/Articles/733431/

Signed kernel modules is on its way though: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/module-si...

I guess that would be a place to start for implementing SIP...

Re: Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What stops a Linux program altering the system? I guess you need root access to change things outside of /usr/local this could easily be done on macOS too but the wheel had to be reinvented by Apple in a way that is probably less trustworthy.

With SIP you can't change some things even as root. SIP has definitely made macos a harder target, though it is still lagging Windows in some areas. Linux is almost comically unprotected. @grishka Edit because I'm rate limited: I've not seen anything that does executable validation for linux and actually works. Needs lots of kernel support. See the response from the old DigSig author: https://stackoverflow.com/questi…

Interesting thanks, what would be the Linux equivalent of SIP?

Re: Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

#173
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pssst, lets not turn off the Apple hate. /s I love this though, finally the GNU/Linux crowd that has been giving money to Apple for convinience, instead of sponsoring Linux OEMs gets the message.

Wouldn't you rather they give money to Apple, so there's an alternative OS to pure UNIX/Linux conformance (with Mach, file hierarchy changes, and tons of added stuff), Swift, and so on? That puts some actual pressure to those Linux OEMs and distros... With sponsoring Linux OEMs instead we'd still have more of the same beige boxes, no new major architecture like ARM on the desktop, a Windows-2005 state of desktop envi…

Those are different issues.

I buy into Apple ecosystem for what it is, the progression of NeXTSTEP ideas (whose I came in touch with during my thesis), where UNIX compatibility was only used to bring stuff into the platform and have a place at the 90's workstation wars.

That is what Apple platforms are all about, an alternative OS design, where UNIX compatibility is good figuration, but will never get a main actor role.

By sponsoring GNU/Linux OEMs I mean paying companies like Tuxedo, Asus, Elementary, System76,..., just don't pay someone else to develop on their OS expecting to improve GNU/Linux ecosystem.

WSL is going to be the same, Microsoft just discovered that there is this crowd that cares more about POSIX tools, keeps calling them "Linux", but what they really want is anything that seems like UNIX, so out of the ashes from Project Astoria and Drawbriges, WSL got born and advertised to the masses unhappy with "GNU/Linux" on macOS.

As for the lack of creativity you point out, I fully agree with you, GNU/Linux desktop experience feels like those guys that buy a Fiat Spider and then stick a Ferrari logo into it.

Re: Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With SIP you can't change some things even as root. SIP has definitely made macos a harder target, though it is still lagging Windows in some areas. Linux is almost comically unprotected. @grishka Edit because I'm rate limited: I've not seen anything that does executable validation for linux and actually works. Needs lots of kernel support. See the response from the old DigSig author: https://stackoverflow.com/questi…

Interesting thanks, what would be the Linux equivalent of SIP?

SIP relies on entitlements, which rely on code signing. I'm not sure code signing is at all a thing on Linux.

Re: Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

#175
post #7

How to disable this feature: https://tinyapps.org/blog/202010210700_whose_computer_is_it.... And a humorous guide on disabling protections like code signing and notarization: https://www.naut.ca/blog/2020/11/13/forbidden-commands-to-li...

The issue is defaults. Personally, I prefer using an open source alternative OS where generally everything is disbled by default. (NetBSD is best exemple I have found.) Commercial OS like the ones created by Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc. have default settings that are opinionated, i.e., some users might not wish to choose these settings. This puts a burden on the user to disable or work around them somehow. Apple iO…

The problem is that people who work on some specific fields (music, cinema, graphics) have almost no choice when choosing OS and computer.

Most of them won't even care about sending too much data to a company if that's the price to have the same device everyone else is using in their industry...

Re: Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

#176
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why _should_ you have to disable this feature? Sigh. My point: opting out should be much, much easier.

All you need to do is to know about the linked page and have it open on another computer, disable some initial disk protections, reboot into recovery while holding down some unmentioned key combinations, disable further restrictions by typing in cryptic Terminal commands that don't match the public names of the features they affect, reboot again, type in more cryptic commands as root to modify deeply nested system fi…

sounds like a feature

Re: Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

#177
Is Big Sur compliant with GDPR? Do they list what they send and why and is it opt in? Or the OS is using a loophole that GDPR only applies to the web? I think people should start sending GDPR complaints to Apple. But even if Apple gets multi billion fine, it won't affect them in any way apart from loss of PR points.

Re: Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

#178

On my system: % cd /System/Library/Frameworks/ % cd NetworkExtension.framework/ % cd Versions/A/Resources/ % ls -l Info.plist -rw-r--r-- 1 root wheel 8.9K Jan 1 2020 Info.plist ⇒ I think this requires root. That, IMO, would make it less of an issue (maybe even a good thing, given the complaints people have about Apple not giving them control over their hardware)

It's totally irrelevant if this requires root or not, since the issue is about endpoint firewalls not being able to see this traffic/filter it.

A normal non-apple root process doesn't have this privilege, going by the described exploit.

Re: Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

#179
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't you rather they give money to Apple, so there's an alternative OS to pure UNIX/Linux conformance (with Mach, file hierarchy changes, and tons of added stuff), Swift, and so on? That puts some actual pressure to those Linux OEMs and distros... With sponsoring Linux OEMs instead we'd still have more of the same beige boxes, no new major architecture like ARM on the desktop, a Windows-2005 state of desktop envi…

Those are different issues. I buy into Apple ecosystem for what it is, the progression of NeXTSTEP ideas (whose I came in touch with during my thesis), where UNIX compatibility was only used to bring stuff into the platform and have a place at the 90's workstation wars. That is what Apple platforms are all about, an alternative OS design, where UNIX compatibility is good figuration, but will never get a main actor ro…

>As for the lack of creativity you point out, I fully agree with you, GNU/Linux desktop experience feels like those guys that buy a Fiat Spider and then stick a Ferrari logo into it.

Yeah, could not put it better.

The sad thing is there are tons of things they could do to differentiate from macOS/Windows and build something better, but the only thing they do is "copying the same" + "more customization" but with lesser production values (due to less resources, more fragmentation, more customization meaning less coherence, no unified vision(s), etc).

Fucsia is the only alternative OS project (real in the sense with money and a player behind it, there are tons of academic toy OSes that ultimately wont matter), trying to do something at the 2020-level, but knowing the attencion span, lack of vision, and culture of Google it wont go anywhere, or just end up as a ho-hum replacement for Android.

There's lots of resistance, cargo cult, and ceremony, at the Linux distro level, and some things need a big player with lots of resources to push them. Canonical is not that big, and doesn't really do that well anyway (even assuming it's interested). And because Linux is mostly hardcore devs and enthusiasts, it's difficult to sell them any major change to the way things have always been.

One idea for example that sounded like a move forward is something like GoboLinux fs structure. But of course that will get ridiculed by most Linux greybeards because it's not like things have always been. Some for something like NixOS. And that's just of the FHS layer -- imagine the resistance to changes to more classic layers (e.g. the hate something like systemd still gets).

Apple can change things more easily because they can do it end to end, and millions of consumers don't expect things to stay like NextSTEP forever, or care about strict POSIX adherence), but they still get all the hate on HN for many moves.

And of course nobody appreciates the hard work of moving e.g. 500,000,000 devices or more (iOS + macOS) to a new filesystem you have developed in the span of 5 or so years - but they notice all the baby issues that pop up (while similar issues to e.g. fs changes in Linux distros, with all the fragmentation, and "DIY" go unnoticed, or pinned to the user as responsible who switched from ext4 to something else etc.).

Re: Bypassing Firewalls in macOS Big Sur

#180
post #131

Ugh. I'd love to switch to Linux, but as a designer, I'm stuck. It's not a lack of understanding of how it works— Before I was a designer I was a developer, worked in IT for a while, worked in upper-level support for a while, and Linux was my primary personal and professional OS from the late 90s to like 2010. Why don't I just run a closed-source OS in a VM? They are fussy. Having some weird graphics tablet driver pr…

Some things changed for the good the last couple of years. I am programming on Ubuntu (C#, PHP, Javascript) with Jetbrains software. This works absolutely great. For 3D work I use Blender. But for graphical work I agree that there are still alternatives missing. Figma is a very good alternative for Sketch. Scribus is a good alternative for Indesign. Krita is very good for concept art. But that's about it. Inscape is…

I have tried in 2008 with Ubuntu Studio, after spilling coffee on my Powerbook G4, to work in Linux as a UI designer full time and people don't realised the power of Inkscape at the time. 2017 I have used only Ubuntu LTS with Gnome and Affinity Designer in Win VM, full year.

This time around I think that is possible, and economically solid, the move from Apple to ARM and closed walls of App Store to create conditions for real Linux Desktop Revolution.

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